New 10 Point Blog Comment Policy

Blogging friends and blog commentors: I need your help with a new blog comment policy that I put a great deal of thought into… before we make it live, here it is for you to give us your agreement, disagreement or any additional thoughts on it:

The EzineArticles.com Blog Comment Policy:

We warmly welcome and invite you to be an active participant in the blog discussion threads!

In order to have some civility and order to the blog discussion, here are some guidelines that we use to moderate the discussion:

1) Make sure your comment ADDS VALUE to the discussion, is relevant and will most likely be meaningful to the majority of readers.

2) Be kind. Personal attacks (direct and passive aggressive) and flame wars will not be tolerated. We are a professional business forum and expect everyone who participates to keep a “cool head” when the passion of a discussion becomes heated. We will not allow comments that constitute a racial or sexual slur against any person or group of persons.

3) You get to list your NAME and (1) WEBSITE URL with each post and our blog software will automatically remember this information each time you post. Your website URL will be linked up to your NAME, as is for standard blog comment etiquette…and therefore, we will NOT ALLOW SIG LINES below your comments. They will be removed if you add them. We consider adding SIG lines with URL’s as ‘double dipping’ because you already received an active link to your name in each comment.

4) You may not copy and paste private emails you received from someone else in your blog comments. This is bad form and not tolerated.

5) Remember that your blog comments are not editable after you make them…so don’t say anything you wouldn’t mind knowing will be online for a very long time.

6) Trolls need not comment as they will be deleted. A troll is someone who posts garbage to bait a discussion or they only are interested in promoting their website or their clients website. Also known as “comment spammers”.

7) Keep your language relatively clean. Our anti-comment spam software may not even accept your comment if you swear in it.

8) This business blog discussion is not a democracy or freedom of speech blog. It is our intention to keep the focus and tone on a positive upbeat manor that encourages learning, discussion, debate and knowledge sharing. We reserve the right to delete comments for any reason at any time and to do so without explanation. We may delete comments which attack us, attack our authors or publishers or members, attack our friends, colleagues, heroes or admirers.

9) New commentors are moderated for their first post and then will be allowed to automatically post without initial moderation; but given enough time, all comments are reviewed by one of our blog moderators to ensure quality and relevancy in the discussion.

10) By submitting your comments to the EzineArticles.com Blog, you grant EzineArticles.com permission to republish this comment without restriction, notification or compensation. You also acknowledge that you alone are fully responsible for each comment you make including inaccuracies or potentially libelous statements. You agree to not disclose proprietary or confidential information.

CHANGE: NOFOLLOW ATTRIBUTE REMOVED

Also, we made a positive change today that will impact all commentors positively: We removed the NO FOLLOW attribute from your website URL when you leave a comment. This will allow search engines to spider your website when they approach your URL on our blog. Don’t know if we’ll make this change permanent or not, but for now… we wanted to remove the NOFOLLOW attribute to deliver more potential link love value to our commentors.

Ok, what did you think of the above comment policy? What did we forget to include? Anything we should change or remove?

158 Comments »


1
Audrey Okaneko writes:

Chris,

I read number one and went “oh no”. It’s really a judgment on someone’s part as to whether or not my comment “adds value”, and whether or not it will be perceived as “meaningful” by your other members.

You have a few members who will sometimes posts one sentence..is it of “value”? Well I crack up sometimes. It’s of value to me ;)

I think the remaineder of your guidelines are great and leave no room for “oops I didn’t know that”.

Audrey :)

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 10:13 AM

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2

Hi Chris,

The fact that you have taken the time to create guidelines sends out the right message: If the blog is an essential tool in creating a “community” then there have to be rules to ensure we all want to remain a part of it.

My primary objective as a relevative novice, is to learn as much as I can from other, more experienced authors and any initiative you implement that persuades them to participate has to be welcomed.

JF

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 10:19 AM

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3
Bill Haynes writes:

Further evidence of EzineArticles’ continued efforts at making ezinearticle.com the Web resource. Cogent comments can only make the blog even more valuable.

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 10:25 AM

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4

Chris —

This is another excellent step in creating the best online environment for authors and publishers. It encourages participation while limiting the ability to abuse the comment features. Thanks.

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 10:52 AM

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5

Hmmm – wonder where my comment went?

I think it is great – IMO, these make perfect sense

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 11:14 AM

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6
Edward Weiss writes:

All of the above sounds good to me. In addition, you may want to think about those who like to post book size comments (500 words or more) to the blog.

I don’t know about you, but I find it annoying when someone writes a tome to respond to something that could have been answered in 2 sentences.

Thoughts?

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 11:42 AM

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7

Good point Edward!

I agree… it’s hard to follow comments when they are TOME-length.

Cynthia,

Your comment was deleted by the black helicopters.

;-)

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 11:51 AM

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8

I kind of agree with Audry.

Whenever I write a comment I worry, “Does that sound stupid and too elementary?”

I write my comments anyway because I really want to understand things further.

I think that maybe, if I had seen the first rule, before I had ever commented on this blog, I may not have commented at all. The aim is to get people involved right?

I did post a “Thank you for the mug” that was not within the subject though. Humm.

The rest is fine and very reasonable.

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 12:09 PM

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9
Jennifer Thieme writes:

These guidelines all make sense to me.

Here’s what I think regarding Audrey’s and Kathy’s point about guideline #1:

To me, guideline #1 is really about person’s heart and motivation behind whatever comment he/she leaves. If you have a desire to add value, be relevant, and be meaningful, then this desire will come through, regardless of the words you actually use.

To the sensitive ear, guideline #1 DOES sound a little “sharp” or “hard”. Perhaps the guideline could be rephrased to: “Have a desire to add value, be relevant, and be meaningful to the discussion,” or something similiar. Because when the proper desire comes first, what naturally follows from it will be acceptable.

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 1:00 PM

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10
Ed Howes writes:

Audrey and Kathy,

All comments are posted with intentions. Many readers pick up on that as much as what is said. This does suggest an alteration in the wording of the policy. “It is our intention to provide maximum value to all readers, if this is your intention, we welcome your comments. Thoughtful questions and statements are encouraged by all.”

This is one thoughtful set of rules, which can be called upon to arbitrate any of the more passionate postings I saw this year. These were not numerous in the scheme of things and Chris has done well to be a highly interested observer, more than a moderator. I have never minded him stepping back into a thread to make a point or direct back to the original post.

I am pleased about suspending the nofollow which raises the value of this forum substantially for the participants, I assume we all want to encourage.

Edward does have a point about post lengths. A suggested maximum word count target would put a leash on all us great expositors. Only a very few of us come and write stream of consciousness, losing track of anything resembling a reasonable word count. If we suggested 300 or 400 word limit, I would not object Even when a long post to an occasional 600 word rant. Unless it began happening on every thread.. Even if a long post annoys some, I have enjoyed many, which informed a great deal, if only about the writer. This is also a ligitimate part of community and I would not forbid long posts, just encourage few of them.

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 1:06 PM

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11

Jennifer,

Ok, we will change the text to the wording that is less sharp as you proposed and delivers the same message.

Thanks to you and thanks to everyone contributing thoughts about this new comment policy.

Everyone,

I’m leaning towards not setting a word count limit on comments posted as it’s pretty rare for long winded comments to happen.

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 1:13 PM

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12
Louis Latour writes:

Great common sense guidelines…love the no follow change too!

Thanks Chris!

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 2:49 PM

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13
Dominic writes:

I love the new change. It’s always hard to get good quality links and EzineArticles is one of the best. Thanks for the change

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 3:25 PM

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14
Keith Renninson writes:

Hello Everyone,

I’m getting into this thread a little late in the day, but even with that said, I’m very pleased with the withdraw of the nofollow policy as it will raise hits to our sites and ultimately that’s what we’re all after.

The rest of the rules are what make blogging on this site elegant.

That may sound like a strange word, but since we are all writers, you will hopefully agree that writing is elegant if we are respectful when passionate. It tends to make the discussion all the more poignant and powerful when elegant versus angry/nasty writing is involved.

Another good step Chris, thank you.

Keith……

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 4:30 PM

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15
Steve Hill writes:

Hi Chris,
It all sounds good to me.
Steve

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 5:13 PM

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16
Andy Beard writes:

Hi Chris,

I love your switch to removing nofollow. I have always done this on all my own WordPress blogs, and have found the quality of comments increases.

I would suggest adding some internal tagging and related posts to each single page, maybe tied into the use of keywords in article content so that you don’t have too many external links per page.

As to the comments policy itself, you need to specify whether it is ok to link to relevant 3rd party material.

e.g. I want to link to a good post on this subject on the Optiniche blog

http://www.optiniche.com/blog/211/blog-comment-policies/

From that post by Teli, you might want to clarify copyright and editing. A later post suggests a valid email address as a requirement.

In my own comments policy, I am quite flexible for the type of sites I allow people to link to, but no banned or illegal / nsfw sites.
I also ask people to only link through to sites they are proud of, and have removed links to junk sites in the past, even for people with valid comments.

In general links should be through to a site about you or your company, not the latest junk site you just want indexed.

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 7:28 PM

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17

Hi everyone,

I’m also getting here late but wanted to add my thanks and endorsement of the policy proposed including the softer touch rewording of #1 and the spider-follow enabling.

btw, this blog is growing on me… I was in bed studying a document and realised I hadn’t passed thru for a couple days! ;-)

Nite, nite or create a great day, depending on your location… ;-)

Comment provided January 4, 2007 at 10:05 PM

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18
rudradatta writes:

Whatever guidelines you have mentioned is fine and up to mark. I would like to appreciate few of the points you have specified in your guidelines 1 and 2, which are very essential for every one before adding a comment on a certain topic.

Few of the points are very appreciable:

1)Adding a comment never can be a purpose of advertisement, but it is essential to add value to the topic.

2)Your comment should be knowledge based and it should not be an one line sentence comment like nice topic, thanks for this topic etc.

3)Before adding a comment your soul purpose is to help the community with your comment.

4)Your comment should be relevant to the topic.

5)It should be a source of knowledge for the majority of the readers

6)Helps the topic to be more illuminated with your cool and kind comments

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 12:07 AM

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19
Samantha Rangren writes:

I actually often don’t add my website for some reason. Oh, cuz often I don’t add my last name. I’m a privacy freak, and have actually only published articles here under pen names for each channel (personality??). My account is listed under my legal name, but I have yet to publish using that name. I suppose since it’s a pen name, I could associate it with each channel website.

Frankly, when I add a comment to your blog posts it’s because I want to say something. So all the other bits are welcome.

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 5:27 AM

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20
ron jones writes:

Its good that you have allowed HTML links here . I think more than promotiion it would help us to know abour each others nice and able to learn from each other

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 5:59 AM

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21

Hi all,

One thing that is happening to me as I read these permutations on “make sure your post is relevant” is that I am becoming very self-conscious of what I write, a bit concerned about what I have written in the past, and hesitant to post new comments.

I suspect some of the rest might feel this way too.

I don’t think that is the intention – to shut down the conversation – and I am probably being too sensitive :) but here is my own reflection…

I doubt seriously that my posts would meet all, or even most of the criteria rudradatta listed – not to single out rudradattaa’s post, but I just doubt that what I say is all that illuminating.

I participate in this blog because I learn a lot and I connect with others here.

I loved Chris’ comment about the helicopters – but chose not to respond bc I was not adding to the knowledge base – I am kind of sad about that.

Maybe all this attention means that we really care about this blog and want it to be the best possible and so we are trying to sift through language and meaning – and getting any group to agree on language and/or meaning is a formidable task.

It is an extremely helpful blog, and I really appreciate the comments – even the one line “nice post” ones.

So I guess I am asking if I am taking this all to seriously, if we are, as a group? Or, maybe the blog is developing in a new way, and I need to adjust – I really hate adjusting :) so maybe that is my discomfort.

I still like the new guidelines, I am just feeling a bit under the microscope now.

Cynthia

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 9:14 AM

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22

Cynthia,

One-liner comment posts are fine and I don’t have any problem with them… because they add to the flavor and mood of the community or sometimes, just for entertainment value.

Sometimes we learn only that we’re not alone in having certain thoughts or ways of thinking.

Where I’d suggest caution in high frequency comment posting is when the blog threads get long.

Example: This is the 22nd blog comment on this thread, which means 21 emails will be sent to the first 21 commentors who will be notified of this comment.

My point: Greater responsibility when posting comments or exercising caution should be had when the size of the blog thread expands.

Rudradatta,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments also… I’ll see if we can find a way to weave your tone into the final comment policy when it’s posted.

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 12:56 PM

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23

ALL;

Thanks for your suggestions!

A final comment policy has been posted here:
http://blog.EzineArticles.com/2007/01/ezinearticlescom-blog-comment-policy.html

Yes, we could keep on tweaking it and improving it and most likely will come back to improve on it in the coming year; but we’ve reached the point that this project needed to be concluded so we can move on.

Thanks again for your help to shape our new and first ever, blog comment policy.
:)

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 2:10 PM

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24
Lance Winslow writes:

Good idea for 2007. However, the thought of arbitrary monitoring is a little worrisome. I have watched folks passively attack me in so many words, as writers are very good at such things as backhanded compliments. And when they do this, don’t they really deserve a reciprocal response?

For instance when Nancy Pelosi, stated that they want to work with both sides of the isle and debate without attacks, it seemed a little bit ironic in that they have been the instigator of lots of attacks. If someone attacks an idea or concept then the person who originated deserves to defend themselves and their idea.

It is interesting that one would ask for feedback on a new policy or way of doing things on this website. But if someone in so many words stated that the idea; Sucks. Then their comment would be deleted because it was deemed an attack against EzineArticles.com so in reality are you not afraid that this policy will in fact cause people not to comment and have a reverse affect? Or are you so confident that the increase in comments on this Blog will take care of those who are afraid or no longer bother to comment?

It almost seems like we are saying. Say whatever you want as long as it is the “politically correct” and approved thing to say? Which kind of makes sense because that is exactly where this nation is headed. So, are we all to join in the new POV at EzineArticles.com and if so, are the articles next. That is to say write whatever you want but if it is not properly skewed to lets say a mass media political correct viewpoint, we will simply erase it and you and that’s that? Tell me more about this as it is so fascinating this straddling of the fence, I must learn more about these tactics to further my own websites?

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 6:05 PM

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25
Gary Simpson writes:

Lance,

I’m starting to frighten myself. I find I am agreeing with you more and more – LOL!

Your comments above were very good.

Chris, the general thrust of the guidelines is OK.

The difficulty is that written text has no inflexion to it. For instance, I could SAY

“You dirty dog!” in a playful manner. But… if I write those words then, really, if there is no effort contextually to “explain” then it can only be regarded as an insult (Re: my addition of LOL above). That then would be diametrically opposed to the manner in which the comment was offered.

Did that make sense?

Gary Simpson

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 7:37 PM

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26
Ed Howes writes:

Freedom of the press belongs to the person who owns one. this particular press belongs to EzineArticles who have all rights to its control and manner of use. Guidelines are not hard rules, but GUIDE lines. The energy it must require to see another gets what they deserve. Just to know what another deserves boggles my mind.

The person who chooses to be offended by another does so only because he enjoys being offended. Lance, you just go on and be your natural self, providing us all with both knowledge and amusement regardless of any guidelines. if and when you are censored or censured, you may derive many articles from it.

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 11:08 PM

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27
Lance Winslow writes:

Ed, what is the point of your comment? To side with those who wish to limit thought. To do so without thinking is truly hypocritical indeed. The fact is that the more one limits thought in a forum or even a modern day blog then the less value you derive from it. This is what happens in the blob of bureaucracy?

This indeed defeats the purpose of communication and is therefore slowing the forward progress in this case of the number one online article submission site in this venue. Are you angry because I perhaps offended your flaming liberal skewed view point in pointing out the ironic nature of the Democrats and their Childish Leadership during the inauguration yesterday?

Just because I enjoy being offended and use it as material to write articles is besides the point of my comments, as I use everything as material for articles, compliments or offensive comments. Of course controversy sells much better and makes for better articles.

So achieving offensive comments indeed provides energy to the cause of article writing and flushes out the real point of views that so many are afraid to give in fear of not being politically correct. This way you can readily see where everyone stands instead of getting a bunch of bogus kiss-butt compliments and yes men. My tactics for gathering article material work and they work well.

Perhaps you might learn from that method of operation and apply it to your philosophical articles. I am thus offended by your attack on my personal character and will now write an article about the dynamics of this argument that you started. Thanks for another article on; ‚¬“The Reality of Brainstorming on Blogs in 2007‚¬ and how you can achieve strength in communication without pretense.

Comment provided January 5, 2007 at 11:33 PM

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28
Ed Howes writes:

Lance,

I am not angry. You are very welcome to my assistance, as always.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 12:39 AM

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29
Lance Winslow writes:

Ed, I figured you would not be angry, as you seem more of a Libertarian viewpoint; Live and Let Live, more a Founding Father type political thought process, well that is the feeling I get as I read your great articles. Yes, thank you for the material, I think it is a good subject, because creating a balance between Blog Courtesy and Respect and total freedom of thought is not easy and well Chris is doing a very good job in that regard here.

One thing I have found is that when someone does get their feathers a little ruffled and humans tend to do this across the board in all cultures, is that they start to talk about what they really think and how they really feel and that is such valuable information for the leadership and decision makers. It helps them gauge the importance of the issues with regard to the various perspectives.

Philosophically speaking and thinking out loud of cource.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 12:55 AM

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30
Gary Simpson writes:

Hey Ed and Lance,

Maybe you guys could JV in an article and call it:

“Blog Wars – Two Heavy Hitters Trade Blows then Kiss and Make Up.”

heh… heh… It was a joke guys.

Hey, do you guys ever sleep?

Gary

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 1:24 AM

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31
Lance Winslow writes:

Gary, good point, but now you have offended me so I am going to write an article;

“Righting the Wrong; Turning the Tables on Blog Tyranny”

Indeed you make a very strong argument for using a little diplomacy in online Forums and Blogs to get past the chaos and controversy and debates over the “means” in order to get to the ends is a pragmatic way which makes sense and is the best for all concerned?

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 3:21 AM

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32
Gary Simpson writes:

Aha Lance!

Now I know how you did it!

10,000 people offended you. That is your fuel.

Thanks for the tip! ;-)

Gary

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 4:18 AM

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33

Wouldn’t it just be very easy to look at this post, say to yourself, “Good, rules and boundaries are a good thing. I’m going to do my part to share my what I have learned and show respect for other opinions on the blog.” –and then just STOP THERE?

Does anyone here watch Cesar Millan the Dog Whisperer? I see Chris as the Alpha Dog of the EzineArticles Blog Pack. He is right to set the rules – it’s his territory. There are always rules in every society, even if nonverbal like the ones our canine friends use. They’re needed to keep the society functioning.

For the most part, dogs don’t dwell in the past or worry about the future. They focus on just BEING.

I think I can do that on the blog. Can you?

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 6:37 AM

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34
Gary Simpson writes:

WOOF!

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 7:00 AM

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35

Has “Point One” already been abandoned? My mailbox is awash!

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 7:06 AM

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36
Andy Beard writes:

Hi Chris

It would be good to place that comments policy in a more visible place, such as immediately by the comment form, maybe with a H2 heading. Even though I was actively looking for it, It took me a while to see it in the footer of the page.

Also I am not sure the subscribe automatically by email is a good idea. I much preferred the optional box.

Have you thought of allowing trackbacks? I linked through to this post yesterday and noticed trackbacks don’t currently appear.
The plugin Spam Karma 2 handles trackback spam very effectively.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 7:37 AM

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37
Ed Howes writes:

Gary,

WOOF is meaningless drivel, in wanton violation of the guidelines. In dog English, woof, woof, woof is yes. Woof, woof is no. The wonderful thing about guidelines is they help us identify the rebels among us and perhaps a revolutionary or two.

I like the notification default as it is. If I forget to check it on a thread I want to follow, I have to leave another comment to get notification. I have never unsubscribed from a thread.

I knew nothing about blogging or blog etiquette when I first discovered this one and learned by making some mistakes the guidelines would have prevented, since they were not intentional errors. Now I am happy to see them here and know they will be of great value to newcomers who will be far less intimidated by knowing the guidelines some will agree to and others will not. This builds our EzineArticles blog community in a welcoming way which is what some of us want to happen.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 10:33 AM

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38
Lance Winslow writes:

Has anyone considered that we are Blogging about Blogging? I mean think how ridiculous this is. The Internet is a created reality, it is not the real world and here we are discussing the dynamics, human behavior and communication strategies of the very process. It is like writing about writing. You know you have gone too far when you start writing about writing or blogging about blogging?

Nevertheless, in studying groups, committees, free-flow thought brain-storming; less rules is always better and more rules create bureaucracy and destroy innovation in its purety. So to that point, which only a few have addressed here, it is a bad idea to have lots of rules and make rules about rules.

It is indeed a commonality and given that once you make one rule you have created a never ending job for yourself and job security to keep re-defining the Blog rules and thus completely defeat the purpose for which the Blog was originally intended.

Therefore my point of contention stands and it is amazing no one has addressed this issue or stepped out of the Blog long enough to see this issue.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 12:47 PM

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39
Ed Howes writes:

What – another comment notice in my Inbox? Blessed be the thread drivers. :-)

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 1:19 PM

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40

Some of us want Law and Order with our Web.

If you look at the web as a Whole, where you can choose to participate in any one of an infinite number of discussions transpiring on the planet, then you will realize your innovation purity cake can be had and eaten too. So if there is a certain discussion that you crave, the next natural step is to seek it out. This is done via searches.

If this discussion on this blog is not reigned in to be *mostly* about article marketing, then it’s not going to register on the Web as such and Those who Seek Article Marketing never shall Find.

This is an Article Marketing blog.

The truth is, if the moderator of this blog wishes to stress topic-specific, high quality discussions or try to stay on the subject of article marketing and related areas, it’s not going to curtail your free form thought. Why? Because you can still make your points from anywhere else on the web and point it back to here – with links!

There is still unlimited space for you to get your beef out or stream out some consciousness or whatever you want to do. Anyone here can digress to their heart’s content on their own blog – and link it back to this one so that there is a connection or a “to be continued or shall I say, a PIVOT on article marketing which shall be found HERE and not there.

It’s annoying for people who come here looking for article marketing tips, to find a discussion that totally lacks any semblance of order. It also puts too much pressure on a moderator, to not have any rules, and then to realize that somehow a discussion has gotten out of control, but there are no rules to refer to when order needs to be restored. I know because I have lived this. It’s not fair to the person in charge, when everyone is taking and making demands, without putting themselves in the shoes of the Head Peacemaker.

That’s why there needs to be a set of guidelines. NATURE works by a set of rules. Live it. Love it.

It’s obvious I’ve turned mad. Why? I am writing on a Saturday. For nine hours. So, if this offends anyone, you have my apology.

:)

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 2:54 PM

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41

Lance,

Per your comment #24; I’m not worried about the negative possibility that the new blog comment policy might discourage some contributions. Less may be better with the current spike in volume of comments.

I don’t intend to really change how we’ve been managing the blog comments… which means, the blog comment policy is just a starting point for how we feel in print…

When I asked for feedback on this new policy, the community gave us several good recommendations that lengthened the blog comment policy and made it more comprehensive… for which I and we are thankful.

Per your #27 comment: Isn’t there any way you could have made your points without taking it personal or making it personal?

Per your #31 comment: I agree… more diplomacy needed.

Per your #38 comment: Job security is the last thing on my mind. Keeping some civility to the discussion is on my mind because I don’t enjoy having to enforce the rules when commentors get out of order or start making personal attacks.

Andy,

Sometime in 2007, I’m open to turning on trackbacks for this blog and just didn’t prioritize it yet. I just turned on trackbacks for this blog thread… and you’ll find the trackbacks URI (why couldn’t they just call it URL) near the new comment box.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 3:08 PM

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42
Lance Winslow writes:

Dina,

Often humans demand law and order and isn’t that in fact the beginning of the law of unintended consequences? Bureaucracy crushes innovation and if this Blog is to pitch ideas and concepts to the over all team. And if we have 40,000 plus innovative and creative people here (writers are generally at the top of the food chain of creative types); then it makes sense to foster creativity and not hamper it.

So where as Dina you are correct of course that this is as Dictatorship Blog, that does not mean a little benevolence towards rule making is not a good idea to get the most out of the process of hashing out idea and concepts. Rule making is so dangerous to innovation, there is a fine line and once you cross that line one defeats the purpose.

Surely if anyone wants to find another Blog to discuss these things they can search it; there are thousands of blogs and 100s of writers Blogs too. I have found interesting Blogs and forums on the Internet and there are many places to start looking; http://www.findyourforum.com/ .

Chris,

When you ask is there any way you cannot take Blog comments personal? Well, I do not know Chris, are you suggesting that we destroy the individual for the benefit of the whole or delete the individual for the politically correct masses? If so, how can you expect innovation and cater to a group of creative individuals; i.e. writers.

Now then the list of rules in my opinion is too long and the truth is the average human would forget them as soon as they read them (attention span-dummying down theory), Therefore a large list of rules serves no purpose other than making people so ultra careful that they do not enjoy the thinking process or blog posting or it simply inhibits participation. Thus what good was served in making incessant rules?

And realize, I am merely using common sense here, thinking without the boundaries of the Box (Blog, Blob) and discussing my thoughts on this subject. Please do not get offended at truth from my POV?

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 3:31 PM

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43
Ed Howes writes:

What in the world is going on here? We have totally served the intention of the original post but the value keeps pouring in, even from the moderator. I love this discussion no matter who it annoys. Those who become annoyed have all the same options as those who have yet more to say. It may only be indirectly but this is about article marketing here at EzineArticles in particular, article marketing in general. (How am I doing Dina? :-) )

Lance, that link you left last post may be the most valuable thing I take from this thread. Thank you for that and being Lance. I love you.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 3:55 PM

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44
Gary Simpson writes:

Ed,

You seem to have taken my “WOOF!” on as some sort of personal vendetta because YOU felt the need to chastise me and assert your own personal authority in this matter.

It isn’t “meaningless drivel” as you call it. How can it be? It is a single word, for goodness sake.

It was offered in humor. Yes, it was in so-called “violation” of the rules. But it was done in a way that you obviously didn’t understand. I was making a point, brief as it was.

You see, Ed, some rules can be “broken” if they add more than they detract.

Would you have been happier if I had changed those four letters to “YEAH!” ? I was agreeing with Dina. I was simply using a form of expression from her own post to do that.

I’ll bet that some people found it rather amusing. Does it therefore NOT add to their enjoyment of this thread?

Must THEY not be amused because you have felt the need to swoop in and bag what I did? In doing so, are you not flaming? Isn’t that ALSO a violation?

Finally, in an attempt to apply logic and re-inforce your argument against what I did by giving us all a lesson in your interpretation of dog language… well, that pretty much speaks for itself.

Sorry for being so dogmatic in my defense of FOUR letters followed by an exclamation mark.

Gary Simpson

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 5:23 PM

[Reply]

45

Lance,

I don’t expect new blog commentors to actually read the rules before commenting (human nature being what it is and my own desire to not make the blog comment policy as a *front and center* issue), so I don’t really think they will be any initial negative impact to lower thoughts without fear of never being ‘heard’ because of moderation…

The blog comment policy is a guideline or path for us to fall back on to clarify any ambiguity when various degrees of problems creep into the discussion.

I understand your POV and even knew beforehand that you would be a ‘freedom fighter against censorship’ no matter what the cause… which is ok because you already know this isn’t a freedom of speech blog.

Perhaps you could understand my POV as being LESS BLACK AND WHITE than yours. It seems you find your controversy by trying to make things blacker and whiter than they really are, no?

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 5:38 PM

[Reply]

46
Ed Howes writes:

Gary,

Might criticism was offered in the very same spirit as WOOF!, making the very same point that fun has not been outlawed I am sorry you chose to be offended. I once knew a real spelling dog in my youth but did not feel it necessary to establish my dog spelling expertise. I will be much more cautious in the future.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 6:02 PM

[Reply]

47
Lance Winslow writes:

Chris states; “Ok, what did you think of the above comment policy?”

The Policy is Okay as far as Policies Go? But are you sure you need a policy for this Blog?

Chris states: “What did we forget to include?”

I believe that you should never ask for input on what to add to rules and regulations, rather you should ask what to remove.

Chris states; “Anything we should change or remove?”

Yes, the rules should be reduced to three main rules, like Isaac Asmiov’s rules for Robots. Keep it simple and easy to remember;

1.) Be Nice, ie “golden rule” and no swear words
2.) Work hard to stay on topic without self-promoting.
3.) Only original comments here, do not post private emails, other people’s work.

The more simplistic the better is my point and to that point one rule could be to use “Common Sense” as that would be the same as the 1-3 here. Of course common sense is pretty much a dying concept for over regulation, political correctness and over-lawyering.

So, in the end why bother to make rules at all? There are enough forums and blogs out their with similar guidelines and they are pretty standard, so? Why not just say; “This is a Blog” and we would expect you follow Common Sense and Standard Blog Etiquette?

So in principle we agree Chris. And if we say that “Less is More” then why not allow that to apply to the rules of the Blog too?

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 7:04 PM

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48
Edward Weiss writes:

Ok. I’ll be honest. I love the rants here. I love it when Lance gets offended and attacks. It’s funny. It’s entertaining.

In fact, I often look at the blog comments here to see IF Lance gets offended. If so, I know I’m in for a laugh or two. But…

This is a blog about article marketing and as Dina suggested rather well, there are numerous places online to troll and incite.

Now, having said that, I still enjoy it when Lance rants. :)

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 7:21 PM

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49
Gary Simpson writes:

Hello Ed,

I didn’t choose to be offended. It is difficult to interpret what you said: “WOOF is meaningless drivel, in wanton violation of the guidelines” (at post 37) in any other way other than your intent to act as a self-appointed policeman in the matter.

Now, if you had added “LOL” to it then an entirely different meaning is afforded.

Was it not you at (post 10) who said: “All comments are posted with intentions.”?

I thought your intention was therefore clear. You felt a need to admonish me and you did it. Well, maybe I deserved it for being a smart alec. Not everybody appreciates humor (re my post 30), particularly if it is too subtle.

Yes. I admit. I was wantonly violating the rules. But I had a purpose and I think that it has now been established. Some rules are too inflexible to add more benefit than what they take away.

In reference to what I also said (re my post 25) – “The difficulty is that written text has no inflexion to it.” then I accept that maybe both of our interpretations of the other were somewhat less than accurate.

Can we leave it at that?

Lance, you’ve done it again. You are on a big roll here this weekend. In my opinion, those three very simple rules (in your post 47) are the crux of what I think a blog/forum is all about.

Robust debate and comments should not be tempered with this ugly “political correctness” where you cannot even mention some words any more. For instance, black is no longer black but “the ocular opposite to white” and being short is “vertically challenged.” Duh!

I think it is only a very low percentage of people who deliberately set out to harm others. Most blog and forum disputes are misunderstandings that escalate out of control as egos start to take over. Tit for tat!

Too many rules stifle intelligent conversation. Lots of people will not be bothered and either just “lurk” too fearful to make a comment or simply drift away.

But, as somebody said (I think it may have been Ed again – but I am sick of scrolling up and down and searching) – the site and the blog belongs to Chris. He makes the rules. If you don’t like them…

So, I guess we just wait and see exactly what the rules are and either abide by them or leave. Simple.

Gary

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:02 PM

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50
Ed Howes writes:

Edward,

Thank you for this public confession. I suspect there are more than a few who agree and are embarrassed to admit it. Not only do I enjoy the rants, I usually enjoy how they eventually resolve and observing that whole process on a public forum about article marketing, most especially EzineArticles article marketing. It’s not like most threads are much fun. A few, like this one, make up for the typical threads.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:06 PM

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51

I must confess I am on the edge of my seat.

I LOVE this blog! and have been watching it all day.

I just want to ask though, isn’t ‘brainstorming’ where great ideas come from? Isn’t that more of what happens here? Here is this idea, how can we make it better?

and

Isn’t it a good thought in the end that maybe the rules don’t have to be a mile long to get the point across as Lance suggests? A long list of rules prior to brainstorming feels stiffening to me. I understand the need for some but if I looked at a long list of rules before I painted I am not sure I would ever paint.

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:11 PM

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52
Gary Simpson writes:

Hey, I just thought of something…

Are we just a bunch of sad and lonely people who get our jollies by yakking away to people we have never met and are unlikely ever to meet?

I have been personally interacting with a lot of “live – in the flesh” people this weekend but I keep drifting back here to see who has said what.

I, too, like Edward Weiss, am rather entertained by it all and I don’t mind tipping a bit of fuel on the fire from time to time.

Hmm. I have just re-read my last paragraph. It seems that it could be interpreted as me “liking” Edward Weiss.

See how our words can create entirely different meanings to what was intended? Well, I’m not saying now that I DON’T like him. I don’t know him.

I guess I’d better just stop now.

Gary

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:21 PM

[Reply]

53
Ed Howes writes:

I see my error. lol

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:22 PM

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54
Gary Simpson writes:

Kathy,

Well said. Your analogy about painting is spot on.

In fact, when people HAVE to conform to strict guidelines in ANYTHING it all becomes too hard and people do nothing.

Gary

PS: Good on you Ed!

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:29 PM

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55
Edward Weiss writes:

I know this is completely off topic (like most of the posts here) but Gary, how are you making some of your words “bold?” Html? And if so, is it ?

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:41 PM

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56
Ed Howes writes:

We used to be sad and lonely. And then…….we found each other. :-) lol~

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:47 PM

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57
Gary Simpson writes:

Hi Edward,

Yes. That is how I am doing it. I read your tags in the email – they didn’t come out in the post above, naturally, because they are only html tags (designed to be invisible on web pages).

I use the standard html bolding, italics tags. If you use them make sure that you turn them off at the appropriate points coz things get untidy if you forget – and ya can’t go back and edit them out.

The other Ed (Howes) THAT was funny! ROTFLMAO!

Just in case… Rolling On The Floor Laughing My (Insert your own meaning) Off.

Gary

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 8:58 PM

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58
Lance Winslow writes:

In the rule #8 it states; “8) This business blog discussion is not a democracy or freedom of speech blog. It is our intention to keep the focus and tone on a positive upbeat manor that encourages learning, discussion, debate and knowledge sharing. We reserve the right to delete comments for any reason at any time and to do so without explanation. We may delete comments which attack us, attack our authors or publishers or members, attack our friends, colleagues, heroes or admirers.”

But if you cannot attack “Heroes and Admirers” does that mean if Chris or Wally or anyone on the EzineArticles.com team just loves OJ Simpson, that I cannot say anything that might question his character if the subject comes up?

Additionally how can we know who the admirers of another are in advance of the comment? And isn’t the statement “we reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason” redundant in that case? In fact if we use strict guidelines and arbitrary spur of the moment decision making then in fact why have rules at all. If you do not like a comment or commentor, SEE YA!

My thoughts are that if you have such a rule, that pretty much takes care of all the rules in an arbitrary sense, thus no rules are needed in that case?

Comment provided January 6, 2007 at 11:29 PM

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59
Gary Simpson writes:

Lance,

Regarding he who shares the same surname as me… does ANYBODY love him?

OJ – Only Joking!

Maybe we could have a “three strike” rule.

Like one strike and your name turns a gooey orange or purple or something. Two strikes and it goes brown (for obvious reasons).

Three strikes and it becomes the same color as the page – white – ie INVISIBLE. Then you could type whatever you like, get it all of your chest and nobody would be offended.

Just a thought…

Gary

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 2:47 AM

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60
Lance Winslow writes:

This concept of turning the post of malcontents to white is an interesting one. Then maybe this issue will become either black or white? Rather than arbitrary shades of gray. Nevertheless, you know a three strike rule might be a good idea for a Blog or Online Internet Forum, some have a 5 chance forum plan. If you are warned five times they are consider walking the plank and on the fifth step you end up one with the sea, as the ship sails on without you?

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 3:34 AM

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61
Gary Simpson writes:

… sort of like here’s a warning – shape up or ship out!

Gary

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 3:49 AM

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62

Gary,

Some blogs have gone to a commentor rating system where everyone votes on who’s comments add value or greatly detract from the discussion… and then we could assign colors to each level.

The thing I’d really like to add is a small avatar of each commentors face next to their post… perhaps later this year.

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 7:49 AM

[Reply]

63

There should be a mirror in front of the commentor’s face as they type their post. Then a digital cam snaps a photo and makes it Insta-Live in the EzineArticles blog.

Then, for added fun, we can toss in a Hot Or Not contest.

I’m just joking, not poking.

Love, peace and understanding to all.

Dina

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 8:29 AM

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64
Lance Winslow writes:

After a lot of thinking on this very subject. I think we need more RULES. For instance. No one can post here unless they know what they are talking about. So they must have:

1.) 1,200 or more articles.

2.) Have written articles in more than 50 categories

3.) Be at the top of at least six category

4.) Post at least 40 posts on this Blog per month, but no more than five per Blog Topic

Only those who qualify can post here. And this is how rule makers control power, by making rules. So, the more rules the more control and it is often extremely easy to get a group to favor more rules in the name of justice and give more power to the control mechanism.

It is a self-fulfilling game of control and if you will read Motley Fools; “Rule Makers and Rule Breakers” then you will see how this all works. And why more rules are not necessarily the best for all concerned.

This is how bureaucracy is formed to allow for those to continue to control, if you surrender your mind to the Blob of Bureaucracy you remain in the box of a thoughtless and mindless loop that you actually begin to believe is a place of your own choosing.

It might be wise therefore to review and minimalize these rules in order to propel thought in 2007 and continue to give the power to those who can give the most back? Just thinking outloud of course.

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 5:06 PM

[Reply]

65

OMG Lance!

I too am enamored and totally in love with you.

Marry me!

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 5:21 PM

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66
Ed Howes writes:

Kathy,

The line forms to the rear. How can one not love the freedom fighter? Laws, commandments, rules, guidelines, suggestions – the distinctions have become a blur. Down with them all!

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 7:03 PM

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67
Lance Winslow writes:

Excellent Offer Kathy, as you are obviously in your creative genius prime and I am in love with your Art. I cannot imagine the creativity that might rub off on me if I were to simply sit there and watch you create those masterpieces. By the way, I just got thru with a great book I think you should read;

“Creativity – Flow and the Psychology of Discovery and Invention” By Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

I bet if you read thru this you might understand that gift you have and why it is so valuable to the entire World. Each painting and work shows the spirit of creativity and opens the door to all that the human life experience is, but humanity seems to have forgotten. Don’t ever change. Nurture that gift and we all win.

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 7:28 PM

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68
Gary Simpson writes:

Hello Chris,

Re: Your comment at 62. You are speaking of the “digg/dugg” system of peer approval? (I guess you are familiar with that site)

Hello Kathy,

Re: Your comment at 65. It truly demonstrates the power of the written word.

Hello Ed,

Re: Your comment at 66. Does this mean that you now lean towards full “laissez-faire?” That is, no rules/interference.

If that is the case… I have seen some forums and blogs collapse due to the low intelligentsia present. (I hardly think that would happen here). I have also seen them self-regulate as the members self-moderate and “pull miscreants back into line.”

Lance – nothing for you this time – except… “congratulations!” Unless, of course, you are already spoken for. (LOL!)

Will Lance respond? Is this the FIRST time he will be stuck for words? I wait with a sardine on the end of my tongue…

Gary

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 7:32 PM

[Reply]

69
Gary Simpson writes:

I guess I just spat the sardine out!

Gary

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 7:35 PM

[Reply]

70

Wow, I laughed at Ed and thought that maybe we should all just cohabitant… maybe both Eds?

What a lovely picture.

BUT! After reading Lance’s post, ah me, I will not share my prince with anyone, not even Ayn Rand’s ghost.

Thank you my prince I will indeed get that book.

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 7:42 PM

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71
Gary Simpson writes:

Wow!

Now we have a Prince and a Knight!

Gary

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 7:45 PM

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72
Edward Weiss writes:

See what happens when you start talking about rules? A proposal of marriage follows.

We could have a cyber wedding with Chris officiating. It may be a first.

Ya see, you can find love anywhere!

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 8:28 PM

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73
Lance Winslow writes:

There has been much research on the Advantages and Disadvantages of Blogs;

http://www.iacis.org/iis/2006_iis/PDFs/Wood_Behling_Haugen.pdf

http://huckboyd.jmc.ksu.edu/symposium/XII/Boudreau%20Speaking%20on%20Blogging.pdf

As they are used in business and these are things each Blog Owner should know and perhaps such information can help guide the rule-making of such systems. There are certain rules that the administrators of a Blog should consider as to not violate regulatory rules as the company or an individual in the company uses the Blog to reach out to customers, vendor team partners or in this case article authors. These internal policies are much more important than the Blob Rules for the public to post.

Nevertheless, rules are necessary for all the participants so that the Blog sheds a positive light on the organization rather than a negative or disheartening one, which can cause flaming or place a negative impact on the companies brand name or hurt the feelings of a customer or otherwise loyal team member or vendor.

Thus oversight for Corporate Blogs, which this one is albeit a ‚¬“Family or ‚¬Team’ Type Company‚¬ (EzineArticles.com) must be a priority for the company; monitoring the Blog is crucial. Consider also the ramifications of such if this great communication tool is not watched carefully. Perhaps computerized rules can be set up for this purpose;

http://kmi.open.ac.uk/publications/pdf/SS0603SongD.pdf

Although in reality this Blog is easily monitored and provides real-time feedback for the Nucleus of the Online Article Submission and Distribution venue on the Internet. The monitoring may prevent conflict and legal issues well enough, yet without some sort of policy the company could be allowing misconduct or even inciting verbal online digital warfare as attacks of personal character get out of hand. So these are serious points of contention of course? ‚¬€ Lance

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 10:51 PM

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74
Ed Howes writes:

Kathy,

Please be careful. Your prince already has you buying your own gifts. And don’t be saying this is just sour grapes.

Gary,

Yes and no. The blog has been largely laissez-faire as long as I have been posting. Chris has exercised the utmost restraint when the dialog was seething with personal attacks, stepping in when he saw it was not settling down. I am saying if we will not distinguish between rules and guidelines, making them one and the same thing for argument, I have no more to say on the subject. I fully expect the blog to continue as it has all along, with or without guidelines and I do not object to guidelines. “Down with them all” was an exaggeration of libertarian spirit.

I post on forums where the profanity policy is not enforced but I can tell the policy restrains the use of it and libertarian or not, I would not go there if there was no restraint. As you say, there are community members who will point out porr behavior to others, so the policy and the community are regulating speech there and it works for me.

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 11:26 PM

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75
Lance Winslow writes:

Did you know that there is actually empirical data to suggest that Blogs half a life cycle? It is true and to that point without knowledge of this truism a wonderful online article author/ online article submission site Blog-Tool like this could have its days numbered;

http://research.microsoft.com/~ginav/ljmodeling.pdf

I believe Chris has made an extremely wise choice here in that he has in fact taken his Blog at would have been the top of the life-cycle curve and used some tools such as; ‚¬“E-mail Alerts of postings‚¬ to re-vitalize the Blog and this should take it forward for another 12-16 or perhaps even 24-months.

Of course the rule making of the Blog is a ‚¬“Necessary Evil‚¬ and I say that because we all know there must be rules, yet we all realize as ‚¬“Creative Artists‚¬ of sorts; article authors are creative, why beat around the bush, you all know it is true. So, therefore some leniency will be needed and discretion on the part of the moderator; Our Gallant Knight ‚¬“Sir Chris‚¬. Why you ask?

Well it is known in psychology academic circles that the most creative folks have brilliance above the masses, but also have a little baggage with that. It is part of their tool-chest that allows them to think outside the BOX or around it, while participating in it on their own terms and when they choose to. You See?

Since Sir Chris is also a creative person, having created this site (example of brilliant creativity) he knows what it takes to make it work it appears. Look how it has grown as the case in point. And as long as Chris continues to innovate using his own imagination and a little help from his 40,000 plus friends, well let’s just say we are all in good hands and this Blog lives on to see greater rewards and hypersonic flight in 2007.

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 11:33 PM

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76
Gary Simpson writes:

Good points Ed.

I left a forum several months ago that I USED to enjoy very much. It was run by a very knowledgeable and helpful Canadian lady.

Her internet business forum was part of a much larger site with multiple forums on dozens of subjects.

I got disgusted by the personal attacks that would go on when somebody had the temerity to put an alternate point of view.

I can play the ball pretty hard but when people start playing the man then that’s not my cup of tea, so to speak.

I wasn’t generally the one being attacked – though it did happen a few times. I just got fed up with seeing the same mugs getting their hackles up over what? Words?

Also, there were so many wannabee marketers annoying everybody with their incessant MLM and HYIP junk.

It all got too much.

I think I’ve said before that when the cost of something (not necessarily financially) outweighs the benefit, and the seesaw is too unbalanced, then people just leave.

I’d like to think that the contribution of information and knowledge that I made back on that forum was useful to a lot of people. However, you cannot keep banging heads with the aggressive ones who push self-serving programs that are designed to do nothing but fleece others.

Gary

PS: Ed – Are you gonna be Lance’s Best Man?

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 11:45 PM

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77
Lance Winslow writes:

Well Speaking of Blogs and Rings?

Blog Rings are they Worth your Participation?

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/blogosphere/formation_of_norms.html

Well ‚¬“What If‚¬ we put this entire Blog on a Blog Ring set up by online article authors, Ezine editors, writer instructional professionals? Yes, indeed the famous What If? Could this be yet one more exploit to assist this Blog in furthering its rise to power for the purpose of propelling this website and all us authors into the Digital Article record books? Perhaps it is just another thought as this author thinks out loud in 2007?

Maybe we all need to read up more on this subject to get all the facts?

Now then perhaps EzineArticles.com might refer to this new book on the subject;

http://www.amazon.com/Blog-Rules-Business-Managing-Relations/dp/0814473555

Because it might help them use this Blog to catapult ‚¬“The Team‚¬ to orbital velocity or beyond? After all EzineArticles.com and its writers must be represented on the New Lunar and Martian Colonies right?

Comment provided January 7, 2007 at 11:53 PM

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78
Ed Howes writes:

Gary,

We are investing in these forums. We collectively work toward their improvement and here we have some fun too. This forum has grown rapidly and as far as I am concerned, it has also grown better. More value, more participants, more viewers, more fun. Excuse me if I sound like a teenager about the fun part. This growth is largely due to a wise moderator and a caring community. If these two factors remain, improvement will continue. I am committed to add value when I can but not necessarily with every post.

Please don’t say anything to Kathy but I believe Lance is a committed bachelor who will take no princess to wife. :-)

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 12:24 AM

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79
Lance Winslow writes:

Are Blogs the Future of Written Human Culture and How our Present Period will be Recorded in History?

If so perhaps then we owe it to ourselves to make sure this Blog gets it accurately correct as we discuss the future of the written word on the Internet. As literature and writing evolve and more and more people join the successful ranks of the online article writing venue, are we not sure that what we do here today is not omnipotent?

Some might believe as others have said in the past that ‚¬“what we say here today will be forgotten,‚¬ but will it? And will those who played a part in making history at EzineArticles.com be the ones who literally changed the face and the future of the written human culture? What say you?

http://www.american.edu/lfs/tesol/In%20Press%20Paper–Future%20of%20Written%20Culture.pdf

The answer is indeed left for the historians and the entrepreneurial victors of this online article submission venue and yet we are well on our way to making that history a reality with over 40,000 strong and growing.

With this incredible responsibility before us; we must commit thinking time to the cause and understand the importance of this cross-roads in designing the future. We must concentrate on the guidelines considered and work hard to perfect them now, so they might indeed carry us to strength and collaboration in innovation. Let’s make a difference !!!

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 12:32 AM

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80
Edward Weiss writes:

Interesting post Lance. I actually think that EVERYTHING that was ever put online is stored somewhere in either a govt. or private archive.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 12:54 AM

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81
Lance Winslow writes:

Edward,

I am most certain that you are ABSOLUTELY correct in that. And their must be TeraFlops of information available and it makes sense too, as any website can be changed at any time. I like the concept of those sites, which allow you to look back in time to see the old content VS. the new. And the Government has all the old stuff as well, although keeping up with all the new personal sites and Blogs must be a real chore for them.

Since Blogs are so powerful on the Internet and now that us online article authors have our own Blog, this workable platform with consistent guidelines maybe we should discuss if these rules do in fact foster the forward progression for open communication we seek?

Along with the Social Phenomena of Blogs and the interaction and control they offer the participants it appears that such a communication device will continue to grow as specialized groups form around the planet into networked social tribes. In one paper I have been perusing;

http://everyhuman.com/work/theses8.12.low.pdf

‚¬“Blogs ‚¬€ A Global Conversation‚¬ by James Torio

It appears to me that there is no end to the expansion and revolution in modern day communication and social interaction that Blogs are causing, in fact you can find information about nearly any topic on the Google Blog Searches;

http://blogsearch.google.com/?sourceid=navclient&hl=en

The Blogosphere is used in many different ways, some folks use it simply to publish their thoughts and they will want one set of guidelines for comments and in fact monitor and delete anything that is offensive to them or might be offensive to their perspective. Indeed most all Blog Moderators will delete ‚¬“Splogger Graffiti Ads‚¬ and for those Blogs which are used to promote thought, innovation or communicate with their customers they will also eliminate such things as ‚¬“Forward Looking Statements‚¬ if they are a public company and any perceived ‚¬“politically incorrect‚¬ hate-speech, personal attacks on persons participating or defamation of character.

Thus guidelines are necessary as this report points out. This report seems to be worth a read and has some interesting empirical data of how folks are making money with their Blogs as well. Creating a Buzz, is not easy, as controversy sells, but if gone to far can detract from the real mission at hand. Maneuvering thru the turbulent waters requires a strategy and it appears Chris might be on the right track here?

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 1:04 AM

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82
Gary Simpson writes:

Howdy Ed,

Correct again (refer: Post 78). After our little tete-a-tete a way back we are now learning things from each other that allows mutual growth. That is GOOD.

With reference to your comment about “fun”…

You don’t have to be a teenager to have fun. In fact, as soon as you stop having fun you become a grumpy old so and so (not you, I was speaking in general terms there – LOL!).

That is why I sometimes add quirky little side comments. I don’t want to revisit an old wound but “WOOF!” was one of them. The sardine reference was another.

Well – they amuse me so I guess they will amuse others too. I can’t be the only dude around with a weird sense of humor.

You see, some may see those things as off-topic. But, in my opinion, they add a bit of spice/laughter/giggle factor etc. It’s all about making the thread more readable.

I know I get great amusement out of a clever observation – particularly – a good play on words. I was over at Michel Fortin’s blog yesterday and this guy made a totally off-topic remark that rode past the subject on a tangent and it was so brilliant.

I complimented the guy, added some more bits and that thread of conversation is now running in between the main thread.

Judging by the reaction of others and Michel himself it is adding value to the different types of people who go there. Some, naturally, see it as infantile and immature. I don’t. We have to cater for many different personalities.

I think it’s all about knowledge AND entertainment. Yes, there is the serious set but when it is all boiled down if you educate and entertain then you have the best of both worlds.

Anyway, I’m starting to use up too much cyber-space.

Regards

Gary

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 1:59 AM

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83
Gary Simpson writes:

Edward,

Refer: comment 80

Here’s a scary though – in line with what you said above.

Notwithstanding the tentacles of mega-enforcement agencies across the globe like the CIA, Mossad, MI5 and FBI who indeed would have access to EVERYTHING in every little nook and cranny on the internet that has EVER been posted, so too do other qangos who employ specialists who know how to dig deep.

Once you commit something to cyberspace it becomes a record of YOU and what YOU say. I cite the facility known as the “Wayback Machine” that can show versions of websites from years ago – even if they no longer look like that or even exist today.

Now, I don’t intend for folks to stop commenting but I do implore them to think about what they say before they hit that publish button.

You see, once it is published it is like the spent arrow. It can’t be retrieved. It’s out there!

Let me scare you a little more – imagine if you were involved in a court case and the opposing lawyer did a search on you. BOING! Out pops all these interesting comments.

Get my drift?

The more you write, the more is recorded, the more it can be twisted like a gnarled piece of legal licorice against you. To the “creative” lawyer such a repository of self-incrimination would be like manna from heaven.

Now, there’s a REAL good reason for self-moderation.

Dwell on THAT!

Gary

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 2:15 AM

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84
Lance Winslow writes:

Industry Blogs seem to be a very powerful tool indeed and to that point of truth we must rise to the occasion to insure that these article authors get the most out of their efforts. It is incumbent of those who participate here on this Blog to understand the value of this communication tool and the rewards that can easily be reaped by pondering the most abstract of thought and tackling the most difficult multi-dimensional challenges we all face.

You see, as the Internet changes, social networking sites pop-up and search engines modify algorithms the change will be the only measurement to guide us. But if we continue to allow a set of guiding principles (guidelines) to help the information flow on this Blog then as this group of authors grows we can meet all those challenges.

It has widely been researched in the Psychological Sciences that such Blog venues when allowed constructive input tend to bring exponential gains in valuable feedback in industry. This Blog is no exception, in fact one in observation might say it an example of how it can be done better, thus leveraging the flow of information to its full extent.

As I study Industry information flows and the processes that guide them and help those industries to enjoy leaps in technologies and advance, it seems this is a great place to be positioned at this time. We are fortunate to be involved in this experiment that has proved that there is no end in sight to its potential achievements.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 2:56 AM

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85
Gary Simpson writes:

Hey Lance,

It took me a while to decipher what you were on about in post 84 but I got it on the second read through.

heh… heh…

Was that a keyword rich BLOG comment?

That might help it a bit too.

Gary

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 3:32 AM

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86
Lance Winslow writes:

Gary,

Indeed my thoughts are this. If we are going to get maximum benefits out of this Blog venue and if we are going to discuss blogging guidelines, then we may as well make them “keyword rich” because that drives traffic. And in fact what has been said here in these mere 86 posts is almost a complete study on the subject of;

“What Guidelines and Rules work best for maximum cooperation and communication in online blogs?”

Someone could literally watch the social interaction and the spirit of information exchange here and develop one heck of a research project on modern blogging and what it takes for them to succeed. If you will carefully re-read my comments you will see how I ply for a complex line of ducks in a row in order to create a multiple win here;

1.) Boost Traffic
2.) Make a Point (s)
3.) Develop Material for articles
4.) Plug research, books and people who are worthy
5.) Get this Blog article to surpass the number of all-time posts
6.) Help EzineArticles.com continue their growth
7.) Promote my own efforts
8.) Explore the issue from all perspectives
9.) Get the reader to think
10.) Meet great people and learn

So to your point, yes that short post above was in part meant to be “Key word rich” and did its job and you were observant enough to pick that up right away. Which I must say is another excellent point in all this. Thank you for pointing that out.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 3:58 AM

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87
Andy Beard writes:

You would have a point if this blog was being promoted as a blog, rather than as an extension of EzineArticles.

If you pop to Technorati, you won’t find reference of this blog, you will find reference to EzineArticles.com, but it isn’t a “claimed blog” which is probably the right thing to do, as EzineArticles itself isn’t a blog but offers RSS feeds. If it was claimed, the links would probably be discounted in the same way WordPress developers were removed from the top spots caused by the link equity from sidebar links by default.

Chris is moving towards this blog being more “blog like” in nature. It would be good to have it registered seperately.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 4:23 AM

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88

Andy,

I am fascinated by what you just said. Can you explain that in more detail, or feel free to email me – dina “at” wordfeeder.com.

The blogosphere still remains a bit elusive to me. All I know is, the linked words in my blog posts get indexed very quickly and then get bumped out just as fast.

I’m actually mystified as to how a meandering conversation like this one could possibly generate targeted traffic for Chris instead of just bringing around the same old round of faces – or is that OK, as long as people are clicking?

Thanks!

Dina

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 10:28 AM

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89

I just caught up from last night.

The Buzz, the wonderful buzz of creativity felt here:

“There is only one admirable form of the imagination: the imagination that is so intense that it creates a new reality, that is makes things happen.” ~Sean O’Faolain

The Rules:

“Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance in the entire population.” ~ Albert Einstein

All of you have created this wonderful sense of possibility. I don’t even understand all of what you guys write about. I confess. But I get enough of it to feel the energy and that carries over onto ‘everything’. It permeates a vision onto a clean white screen and it is exhilarating! That’s why it so much fun and playful. I feel unlocked by it all. I feel like writing an ARTICLE!

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 3:05 PM

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90
Lance Winslow writes:

Kathy, Wow, great points of wisdom and inspiration and did you know that your post made this Blog post the number one most commented on Blog posts in all of EzineArticles.com history? It is fitting that your post was the one that put it over the top as it speaks to the value of the sharing of ideas, imagination and concepts to continue the forward progression of EzineArticles.com into the Future !

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 3:17 PM

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91

No Lance. I only fed off an energy that already existed because of all of you.

How AMAZING, what an extraordinary thing you have all created. That creative buzz is why I personally feel EzineArticles is so successful. You have developed this forum of creative energy that takes on a life of its own.

When I create and get into that mode an energy takes over. I can’t help myself. I stand back like most creatives and wonder at times how I did it. I don’t know. I only know that if I continue on with that buzz I progress with more of the same until I am exhausted. I rest and start again.

What a wonderful thing that we all share. It almost feels holy.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 3:30 PM

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92
Lance Winslow writes:

Kathy, I like it; Creative Energy as a Blog! A place to go to get rev’d up. Is that what you are saying? This almost puts a whole new dimension on the classic version of a Blog. The combined energy of the human minds of participants recorded by symbols (letters and words) and posted in an electronic format available to the whole world. Then the energy comes thru the words and energizes the viewer to go and create.

Yes, this Blog can do that. It can get people pumped up to go get started. We should have some new Blog posts along this line;

1.) What Do You Do to Get in the Creative Mood to Write?

2.) What Do You Read to Peak Your Creative Juices?

3.) Can Viewing Blogs Spike Your Creativity?

A Blog of Motivation and Creativity, a place to soak up the energy to elevate your awareness into the ‚¬“creative state of mind‚¬ and put you on a roll of unlimited thought to innovate, design and develop original works.

Yes, I see that vision and why you use this Blog. This is an awesome tip for all, everyone should do this and use this Blog to propel themselves in their lives and writing. Hmm, interesting topic and another reason to keep the Blog guidelines simple.

BTW- I can certainly appreciate your comment on getting into a creative place and being unable to turn it off. It is like an athlete getting in the zone and the more you do it the easier it is and the longer it can last.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 3:55 PM

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93
Gary Simpson writes:

Kathy and Lance,

Maybe you two should get together – LOL.

You could then create NUCLEAR fusion.

You seem to bounce off each other pretty well.

Gary

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 4:04 PM

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94

Wow Lance… YES to 92.

You see… as I wrote before you are a man of vision.

It vibrates doesn’t it? It fills the room and grows and I can almost hear it.

That is the way to get into that space.

You guys created something almost touchable and I am grateful to treasure the recourses from it.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 4:26 PM

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95
Ed Howes writes:

Especially for Kathy,

You have made me delerious with delight the past few days. Not only was it you who set a new record , it is you who helped us create the EzineArticles Article Marketing Quantum blog. We just reached critical mass with this blog. Longer threads which are adding value at a very high rate congruent with length. Three great discussions going on three threads simultaneously. From this point this quantum blog will go into accelerating growth and value.

Most of us come to give. Few leave empty handed. Being here is its own reward. Permit me this monetary analogy. A small group of investors are investing in this blog and it slowly grows attracting a few more investors. Lance has implied investment here and I mentioned it on a new thred today. These investors are not sure where the business is going. Then in the course of a few days, the value of its social stock triples or better. The number of serious investors doubles. In a short time now, we could be taking Ezine Aricles – where the world shops for articles; public. Perhaps for $80 per share, as Google did. :-)

Congratulations to all our EzineArticles Article Marketing Quantum Bloggers! For all you do, this post is for you.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 8:08 PM

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96

The creative zone is not fragile at all. It is robust and strong, so strong it is overwhelming. The only thing that is fragile is the pathway to get there. I guess EzineArticles got there! What a perfect thing, what a perfect day.

How generous of you Ed. I see my part as being allowed to place the highlight in the eye of the already painted portrait, and I say, “Wow, it breaths!” It was quite obvious that it breaths because of all of you who knew it could.

“Creativity represents a miraculous coming together of the uninhibited energy of the child with its apparent opposite and enemy, the sense of order imposed on the disciplined adult intelligence.” ~ Norman Podhoretz

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 8:46 PM

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97
Edward Weiss writes:

I just realized something…

This kind of conversation really belongs on a forum – which EzineArticles has. But for some reason, I think the forum is dead compared to this blog. What’s up with that?

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 9:47 PM

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98

Thank you again Lance. You gave me what I needed to know and now I can move forward. So darn cool.

Night everybody. Hope you are all still going strong in the morning. It is all so fantastic.

Comment provided January 8, 2007 at 10:07 PM

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99

Edward,

The reason the blog rocks and the forum is dead is because you have to REGISTER (an obstacle) to be in the forums vs. how easy we’ve made it to just participate in this blog without having to become a registered commentor.

We have plans for destroying the forums and rebuilding them in a way that has never been done before that would encourage more member interaction, but there are some larger projects ahead of that.

Also, the forums attract those who like ‘forums’. Some folks don’t like forums.

Comment provided January 9, 2007 at 7:47 AM

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100
Edward Weiss writes:

Chris,

Thanks for the answer. I know some forums that are so busy you can’t keep up with the posts. Others, like one I started a while back for piano students are completely dead.

I guess you never know how people will respond until they do which proves that the customer is still king. Everyone trys to anticipate what people will do or how they will act but from what I’ve heard, even the best, most well informed companies often miss the mark.

Just thinking outloud. :)

Comment provided January 9, 2007 at 10:42 AM

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101
Gary Simpson writes:

I agree Chris,

People shy away from anything that resembles a committment these days. Heck, look at the divorce rate – but that’s another matter.

I guess slick marketers have burned people on the net so hard and so often that the masses are fighting back with quests of total anonymity, nom de plumes and 30 minute hotmail addresses so they can download an e-book or report then trash the hotmail address or do an immediate unsubscribe.

When you ask people for ANY information these days they become immediately suspicious and defensive of motive.

In my opinion trust is at an all time low on the net.

At least here, at this blog, people will speak their minds and not be afraid to offer suggestions and insights into their thinking.

Which kinda brings me right back to the topic of the blog – make it too onerous and people just won’t bother.

Gary

Comment provided January 9, 2007 at 9:06 PM

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102

Lance, I have been thinking about #92 entry ever since you wrote it. Those questions prompt a need to execute a vision; a need to answer them. A muse is found here. Something that can be done in any closet I suppose but a blog would be better.

I think this blog has become #92 in many ways.

Isn’t it so amazing that the subject of rules creates a force that winds up revolving around our need to break them?

Ahh creativity my shining star.

I re-read a lot of the entries here and found so much info and food for artistic energy to spin off of. Wow. What a wonderful group of people.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 1:29 PM

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103
Ed Howes writes:

Cyber Tribalism,

Worthy of a few articles and perhaps a book. A blog is just a cyber blackboard until the community forms and its growth is observed and shared. And it does not take nine months to reproduce entire interest based families. :-)

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 2:25 PM

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104
Lance Winslow writes:

Kathy and Ed, well you know this week I have been considering re-designing my Think Tank website, I had to turn it off because there were just too much traffic and sploggers, hackers spammers and believe it or not spies from other hostile nations military soaking up our concepts.

My thinking now after your comment that prompted me to write comment #92 was that this type of Blog would indeed serve our think tank chapters with the Thought of the Day or Week. Each week the think tank members meet for a few hours at a local coffee shop to solve issues and challenges for humankind. Having a Blog like this could bring up the issues and each group could pull a topic from the daily or weekly list and post their comments too it,

Just like Chris, somehow seems to think of new things to discuss regarding article marketing, creative process, systems management to enhance service, tracking results, search engine optimizing and who is a new innovative notable or intriguing person in the online world of article authors and writing.

What I have been considering is recommending the ability to add 25-50 KB pictures here. You know like Kathy’s nemesis Gecko, who needs a ‚¬“paint job‚¬ if she can catch it and take the picture. That might be creative? Or an abstract Gecko harassing a fantasy woman resting on a Banyan Tree on the Hilo side of the Island? Or the Goddess of Fire rising from Kilauea saving the Gecko from the lava; it’s all-good.

I have been thinking about adding this feature to my think tank for all, where they can link back to research, reports, data or areas where things are done in greater detail. I think this Blog is good and getting better, yes mostly due to the talent, creative nature and personality, as it shines thru even the Pine Apple Express weather.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 3:40 PM

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105
Gary Simpson writes:

Lance,

I find it very disappointing, sad even that you have had to do that – ie suspend your site (re post 104).

Sploggers, hackers and spammers – don’t you just detest these people? They are the ones who are completely ruining the “internet experience” for everybody.

Now you cannot even get a real email to somebody who wants it because of filters and spam arresters. Say just one wrong word and you get shot. BUT… the spammers get past it all by doing things like – pe.nis en1argement and fr33 and other annoying variations.

They are like aphids on roses. You love the roses but you cannot keep the damn pests away.

It is for these types that we have to have rules and then the rules impede all the decent people – who are the majority.

Gary

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 4:04 PM

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106

Ed, Gary! Sir Lance is back!

Where is Ed 2?

Wow what a great concept you are birthing Lance.

I joined My Space for Chris’ Birthday. Since that time I have 700+ friends… I hand picked most of them and found amazing artists and poets.

I wrote a note to almost all of my attained friends on My Space, young and old. The thing they all have in common is that they seek out that fragile creative pathway. I wrote to kids encouraging them in their talent.

I have always felt that worth can be found even in a ball point pen drawing or a child’s drawing with crayons. Something is there that is worthy and it should be noted for the creative to progress to grow. I personally feel that a lot criminals are artistic and just didn’t know what to do with those energies.

Tagging is an art form. That is all Basquiat did for the most part, even Pollack in my view.

Reading over your websites Lance I know that you seek to make the world a better place. It seems we all do who have entered this holy blog space. I salute you.

This idea of yours Lance could truly affect that whole crowd, young, old, rich. poor. There are tons of online art galleries out there but none address the human spirit and its need to create. They chat about this and that but leave me personally feeling empty. Their direction seems to be caught up by whatever whim the first responder writes.

Darn cool Lance.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 4:39 PM

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107
Lance Winslow writes:

Gary with regards to post #105

Yes very interesting indeed we are getting to the very heart of the subject. It is the Sploggers, Spammers and such that cause most of the rules on the most important Blogs and Forums like this one on EzineArticles.com .

It is so unfortunate because here we have a group of people from around the World. I am at the CES Show in Las Vegas, Kathy is in Hawaii, you are in England, Ed is outside of Tucson AZ, Edward is in Ohio, one person on the other post is in South Africa, another in the Philippines, still another in Australia and Chris is in Wisconsin; and yet we all communicate here with a common interest. It simply does not make sense for us to allow a hacker in Eastern Europe or a Splogger in metro-China to wreck what we have going here.

It is a lot like a Gecko in Kathy’s house going ‚¬“click, click, click‚¬ while you are trying to sleep. You want to kill the damn thing, but you know another one will simply come along as take its place as soon as you do? But at least it reminds you that you can save money on your car insurance? If only they could talk with that accent it might make it not so bad?

With regard to a Splogger on a Think Tank forum with 8,000 posts it is nearly impossible to keep them off without the barriers and talk about as you say ‚¬“ruining the experience for everyone‚¬ yes true, but think about a think tank which is working to solve the problems of the Planet and Human Civilizations, what if we miss a discovery, what if someone gets shut out and cannot participate. Everyone loses big time in that case, they may have held a clue to the puzzle on Malaria, safely removing Landmines, a new Alternative Energy, crossing the digital divide, stopping international terrorism, preventing auto accidents, protecting a nation or any number of human challenges. Yes, it truly sucks.

Thus we make rules to attempt to shore up the flood of malcontents attacking the system, yet in the end we cause a slowing of innovation. I just cannot accept that. So we press on! EzineArticle Blog guidelines are indeed one way to put folks on notice and the code system for posting is good too. It’s a start. I am glad to see we have beat them here on this Blog.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 4:49 PM

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108
Ed Howes writes:

Lance,

I visited your think tank once and decided to stay away, sensing I could become obsessed and not get much else done. Add that sense to my knowledge of your writing and publishing activity and I was not convinced the think tank was important to you.

Does chapters mean, those without a local interest group will have no opportunity to participate on your blog posts? I would block out some time to support your project, if I qualify to participate and get an invitation when the time arrives.

I was very active on a brand new forum a month ago, originating a half dozen posts under unposted catagories the operator had created. I don’t know if he was overwhelmed or what. It all seemed automated, with new post Email notifications and all. But now there are no new post notices

Even though we had some good corversation going, there was only a vague sense of community, so I believe operator promotion is critical.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 4:58 PM

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109

I had a souvenir business for 20 years. All wheel thrown, hand sculpt pottery, continually reinventing the wheel but it worked NTL. Sold to most National Parks, Disney World, JC Pennies and mom and pop stores.

Whenever I had friends who asked me about starting a business, selling their wares, the biggest thing they seem to worry about was someone copying them. I always told them that they can count on it. BUT what they can’t copy or ruin is that energy that continues to grow no matter what, that created those ideas in the first place. You can’t stand still because the monsters in the closet might come out.

But… you guys are savvy to the monsters (malcontents). Not only are your weapons drawn but you recognize their limits because they can’t destroy imagination.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 5:19 PM

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110
Ed Howes writes:

Kathy,

Two Edwards, one calling himself Ed. We choose our nicknames, given names as lifelong handles at a fairly early age. My artist friend calls me Edward knowing I prefer Ed, just to annoy me, which puts a little more distance between us than otherwise might be. By the same token, Edward, who does have a very separate identity, probably prefers not to be referred to as Ed 2 or even Ed 1. Using the handles we ourselves use avoids any confusion. :-)

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 5:20 PM

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111
Gary Simpson writes:

Kathy,

I was moving along swimmingly well with your post 106 until you said: “Tagging is an art form”. Then you dunked my head underwater and made me come up gasping. Sorry. I beg to differ. Tagging is vandalism.

Tagging is the street version of spamming. It is designed to deface and destroy private and public property and aesthetic appeal.

I’ll bet that you would not like your home, wall, business, vehicle, whatever “tagged.” It is insidious and in epidemic proportions in my city.

Again, here is a form of rebellion. Again, we need to invent MORE rules and regulations to stop it.

Over here all paint cans, crayons etc are under lock and key in the stores. If any decent person wants to purchase such an item then he or she has to go to the inconvenience of finding an assistant to unlock the steel mesh enclosures and be surveilled while doing it.

Using broken CD’s and parts of bricks is also used to deface (ie “tag”) bus and train and shop and business windows. It is hideous. It is not an art form – not in my opinion anyway. And judging by the way that millions are spent trying to get rid of it and combat it then I think I am in the vast majority by thinking that.

This is just another case of the minority destroying the ambience for the majority. The end-product is that MORE rules need to be introduced.

Having said all that, I found the rest of what you said to be sincere and appealing. I adore kids’ crayon drawings. They are also sincere – straight from the heart. I have kept all these drawings from my children when they were young.

Sorry for the rant. Tagging is a pet hate of mine.

Gary

PS: Lance, UK? I’m in Perth, the tagging capital of Western Australia.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 5:34 PM

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112

I think the Ed 1 and Ed 2 thing was inspired by Dr. Seuss. It just sounds so cute to me. I will however try to get it right. RULE #5007A

After I thought I had killed Tony (the gecko) with a chocolate chip, I found another tiny gecko about half an inch long that had just hatched from a little egg. I said, “Oh! Tony Two!” and made quick friends with him. The original Tony was not dead at all though. I think he had gone a mating.

So you see I simply cannot resist a bit of silliness.

Lance… we don’t kill geckos! Oh no! I have about 20-25 of them inside my house. They chirp yes, but they also eat mosquitos. What we do kill is Koke frogs who seem to have a microphone near their tiny one inch bodies. We put them in jars and freeze them… eww!

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 5:48 PM

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113
Gary Simpson writes:

Hi Kathy,

After my little rant I thought I would break rule #5007A – Part C, sub-section 4F-3, paragraph 9 and bring some attempted levity to the discussion.

Regarding those poor little amphibious creatures that invade your home, you said: “We put them in jars and freeze them! eww!

When you go to the refrigerator do you say: “Hmm. I wonder what I will put in my sandwich toad-day.”

Groan.

Gary

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 6:02 PM

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114

Gary… no I agree with you about tagging, I do.

I just think that problem could be solved ‘somewhat’ by helping youth feel there is an avenue for their creative energy.

I believe that talent is desire and the rest is practice. Some instruction is in order. Society doesn’t do that with visual arts though for the most part. It is crazy to me.

If a child bangs on a piano how long will a parent put up with that before deciding they must have a passion for it and get them lessons? We don’t do that with visual arts for the most part. We wait and see if the kid progresses on their own.

It IS important to learn to color within the lines. There are rules to learn. Those quick lines that resemble something flow after practice.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 6:03 PM

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115

Gary… I know!

I don’t do it… but that is what people do. They put the jar in front of the tiny Koke, no bigger than your baby finger nail, and they jump right in. Then people put the jar in their freezers. Its awful I know.

But wow, if you could hear them. Koke, koke, singing… all at once, thousands of them. They are actually hurting real estate.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 6:10 PM

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116
Lance Winslow writes:

Ed,

One of my retirement projects is to seek other thinkers out there who are ‚¬“turned on‚¬ so to speak, able to discuss a wide variety of subjects and use all that brainpower to help the forward progression of mankind;

The Online Think Tank is the most unique and qualified mastermind group on Earth, as we are ‚¬“Time Neutral‚¬ thinking beyond the confines of time. Our members might be discussing the thoughts or Aristotle and Plato one moment and then in the same sentence the future concepts of Isaac Asimov and Arthur C Clarke.

In fact we have caught glimpses of conversations where Leonardo da Vinci, Darwin, Einstein were mentioned and then subsequently heard the names of Ray Kurzweil, Burt Rutan, Steven Hawking, Stephen Wolfram and Matt Ridley. And what is so exciting about these dialogues is that it isn’t even the names referenced as much as the methods of their creative genius and the brilliance of their concepts.

As we solve mankind’s challenges in the present we draw from all periods; past, current and future to do so. And yet we do this without partisan politics or cultural infighting destroying the flow of thought. We are focused on solving problems previously caused by linear thought, unintended consequences or the innate ego driven characteristics of the species. In doing this we also develop ideas, concepts and strategies which eliminate future problems in advance.

Nearly every modern dilemma humankind faces today is addressed here and there are solutions for each. Since our Think Tanks exist with small net-centric groups, as well as globally online we have no barriers of locality. The flow of thought should not have to endure barriers of regionalism, confines of the planet or even dimensional space-time for that matter. Our teams consist of people from all walks of life, all professions and academia as well. Our goal is to propel unlimited thought and unlimited thinking.

Our local groups often meet once per week at a local coffee shop and then join us with their thoughts online. Having access to specialized domains allows our members to ask questions of the experts and challenge them too. We are leveling the playing field for input into the system and bypassing the restrictive fields of academic sciences, political venues or large non-profit organizations.

Our mission is to Win and foster a can do attitude because we believe no challenge is too great for the unlimited mind. As our Think Tank grows we wish to change the World and insure the continued forward progression of the human race. Now will you bring us your creative genius, open mind, perseverance and strength of character and help in the cause?

– – – – – – –

Yes, anyone who was a member of a Think Tank Chapter or not could post to the Blog, using a similar system here, I think Chris has done an excellent job. Members of local, regional or international Think Tanks can post to the Blog too and also to the Online Think Tank Forum 200 topics in all. US Based Military Types screened could join the special defense think tank section on top of the others. Each local think tank would also have a Working Forum of their own, able to use the links of topics for explanation of their subjects. Layered Online Think Tank Systems.

I was considering on pitching the idea to Chris, that groups form here along common interest, once the participation grew. Local writer’s groups could meet the same way. It is simply a system overlay using all realms, both physical social and electronic social networks. I actually drew up a pretty excellent schematic today, a net-centric system. Of course the individual forums would need moderators and some might need group codes; systems within systems well that would be the idea. Look, we have 40,000 authors here right? Well, then imagine what we could do together? Actually look what just a few people are doing here; from Perth to Hawaii to Mainland US?

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 6:12 PM

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117
Gary Simpson writes:

Hi Kathy,

I’m glad we are on the same page with that one then. I thought you were, in some way, encouraging it.

I’m also glad that my strident remarks were accepted by you in the faith with which they were offered. Did I get across the message that I HATE tagging? LOL!

Regarding rules…

I was at a forum yesterday where I was wanting to post some important information about domain names. First time there. I had a look around to see what the protocol was and I almost gave up.

There were so many rules and guidelines I thought – ah, to hell with it. Every rule had a link to another rule and it was like some giant pyramid of links digging ever deeper into the base of the forum. The 8th wonder of the world – the Great Pyramid of Rules.

Hence, my silly continuance of your “Rule#5007A.” Seriously, that was what it was like. Worse, there were some moderators who countermanded certain rules with exceptions and the like. Oh dear!

It was total confusion. So, I did what most people did. I just posted. I saw so many people breaking “protocol.” I guess they were either:

(a) ignorant or oblivious – in a world of their own
(b) rebels with a cause
(c) totally confused – like me

Finally, after re-reading my post at 113 I wish I hadn’t ended with “groan.”

I should have said “nee-deep.”

Gary

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 6:22 PM

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118
Ed Howes writes:

Lance,

Are you saying you still have an active think tank running? Send me the link and I’ll visit soon.

Kathy,

See how a chocolate chip clarifies the intention of a would be gecko killer? Last week I was talking to a Koke frog He said people were destroying the real estate. Ever notice how in Western education, when there is a budget crunch, the arts go out the window in favor of academics? We have a system dedicated to developing half brains and fostering vandalism.

Gary,

This is sure to shock you. I rarely read the policies, agreements and such, assuming if I should violate any of consequence, some kind stranger will straighten me out. :-)

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 6:55 PM

[Reply]

119
Gary Simpson writes:

Ed,

Bravo!

“We have a system dedicated to developing half brains and fostering vandalism.”

Same where you are, huh?

Mediocrity is the new high tide mark over here too. I read, aghast, the other day that our education department was accepting 22% as a pass mark for exams. DUH!

We are turning out young people who cannot read or write BUT they get all sorts of warm and fuzzy comments on their “assessment” reports. They are no longer allowed to graded A, B, C, D or F.

Hey! In this new world… “EVERYONE’S A WINNER BABY!”

I get worried that some of these types will enter government one day – if they haven’t already. We have some very dim and dismal politicians in this country – people who have never had a real job or any experience. They get to political positions through being gophers, party hacks and via nepotism.

Not wanting to turn this into a political debate…

Regarding your last paragraph in post #118… I am rapidly reaching that point too. I have decided that I will have a little swan around, get the feel of a place then just dive in.

Whatever you say, you are bound to offend somebody these days. Our entire culture is being built around offense, counter-offense – claim and counter-claim.

The more rules we have the more they just bog “normal” people down.

Do you know, I think we could do away with speed signs on our roads…

Most people will travel with the general flow. Then you get George Jetson who wants to travel at the speed of sound. They are the guys who need rules. So, we ALL end up with them.

Gary

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 7:13 PM

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120
Lance Winslow writes:

Ed, we are very active in the local think tanks, just not very digitally interactive on the Internet presently, due to the issues previously discussed. As we re-launch the interactive formats, we have to be extremely careful this time to not be infiltrated by the hackers, spies, sploggers and mellow out the hard-core testosterone attitudes that are often common when someone is defending their theory, concept or idea against another competing potential eventuality. In fact at one point I was mending fences faster than new folks were signing up. Human behavior is so fascinating at times, often more predictable than one would believe. My thoughts are to keep the group word-of-mouth, with only some filtered Internet targeted recruitment.

Hey Ed, what is that famous saying; ‚¬“It is easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission?‚¬ Would that go to for claiming ignorance of the guidelines? Of course that makes for a good excuse until the $7.25 per hour rent-a-cop (minimum wage just passed the House of Representatives today) shows up and says; ‚¬“Ignorance is no excuse for the law!‚¬ Of course Chris was smart to just make them guidelines to start out, more like a coloring book, do the best you can until your dexterity comes of age.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 7:25 PM

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121
Gary Simpson writes:

Lance,

I really liked your analogy:

“Of course Chris was smart to just make them guidelines to start out, more like a coloring book, do the best you can until your dexterity comes of age.”

Sort of like trying to keep the crayons or colored pencils within the lines – I see it!

Can I make a confession to you?

Several years ago when I first started posting here I kept seeing Lance Winslow… Lance Winslow…

Every time I posted ONE article you would have 10 or 15 or 20 or MORE. So, I started reading a few. I even went to your think tank. Jeez, it was more like an oil tanker in size.

I have to admit, some of the topics – “the nuclear acceleration of a whizzbang particle remover” (that was just my imagination)- were indecipherable to me. I didn’t have a clue what some of the topics were about. But that is your passion, your interest.

What I realize now about you (mainly by attending these blogs) is that you are just on another frequency to most, me included. By the way, Lance, that is intended as a compliment even though I know you feign compliments as “irrelevant.”

So, if I have “offended” you then just use it to jet-propel yourself into launching another raft of a dozen or more articles. LOL!

You really are one of a kind!

Gary

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 7:42 PM

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122
Ed Howes writes:

Ignorance of the law is the best excuse ever, since it is universal, especially among those who create, apply and enforce it. Do as we say, not as we do. Yes Sir!

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 7:48 PM

[Reply]

123

That is so funny Gary. I used to just read these on and off… scan them. I always thought, what is all this praise Lance stuff.

Now look at me!

Just like all the rest.

Love to all, I am off to make chocolate chip cookies.

Down Tony!

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 7:53 PM

[Reply]

124
Gary Simpson writes:

Lance,

In post #107 you said:

“I am at the CES Show in Las Vegas”

Pardon my ignorance but what is the CES show? I meant to ask you that a way back. Also, do you live in Las Vegas? I’ll be there in May.

If not, you must be wandering around banging away on a laptop.

Also, Ed…

Regarding ignorance of the law being no defense – have you ever asked a traffic cop for an interpretation of a particular road rule? None of them give the same answer.

One particular question that I have asked (about merging traffic) over and over is just met with raised eyebrows or a load of waffle that makes me none the wiser.

Even the ENFORCERS don’t know some of the laws yet WE are expected to live by them.

Like I said before extensive laws are for serial offenders or those who are just so way out of line that they need a good slap.

Gary

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 7:58 PM

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125
Lance Winslow writes:

Gary, Yes my brain runs on a different frequency and yes I have that issue with copper and iron in my hair follicles too. The good thing about an organic brain is you can modify its use anyway you want. And to that point the more diverse intense your interests, intent, passion, imagination and curiosity the harder the information, observations, experiences and input imprints. Thus the thicker the transfer points and the better the recall.

My theory is that if your brain works at higher RPM or runs multiple brainwaves simultaneously you get the rogue waves producing the ‚¬“Ah ha!‚¬ more often. And even if such a theory is scientifically bogus, it matters not, what matters is that you believe! In this theory my brain would work at both higher and lower frequencies simultaneously, just buzzing along waiting to discover the new, the anomaly or just that elusive original thought, which I work to get at least two of per day.

Sharing ideas and concepts with others helps and unique input helps the process. Now then I am almost certain that others can do the same, if they would apply themselves, although ignorance is bliss, but knowledge coupled with experience, observation and wisdom, now that’s divine.

Ed, your comments about ignorance and the law are of interest in that the real problem is that things like the Motor Vehicle Code, Building Codes, OSHA laws etc are so voluminous that no one but an idiot savant could know them. The lawyers, policemen, judges, why they are forever looking it all up themselves. It is completely silly as so many of the laws get so out of control that they cross the lines of common sense.

So, then you have applied your own common sense to the senseless over regulation and rules I see. Which is fine, until human nature intercedes and someone desires what you have and uses those laws to stifle your best efforts. I hear what you are saying there. Indeed, we need to have a ‚¬“red magic market‚¬ committee to eliminate the complexity the crushes creativity and innovation out there.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 8:07 PM

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126
Lance Winslow writes:

Gary,

CES = Consumer Electronics Show

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070110006117&newsLang=en

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=handhelds&articleId=9007748&taxonomyId=75&intsrc=kc_feat

http://weblog.infoworld.com/smbit/archives/2007/01/from_the_ces_sh.html

No I do not live in Las Vegas, just hit certain trade shows each year that are amongst my interests. I live mobile now in the Blitz Mobile Command Center seeing North America in my retirement.

http://www.carwashguys.com/blitz.html

I visit museums, places of interest, set up think tank chapters, etc and of course I guess you heard I do a little writing too? :)

Since I do not keep a schedule, I am retired temporarily, maybe permanently, not sure yet, I have no clue where I will be in May, much less in the next couple of weeks. I like it that way actually, it would drive other people nuts. But being a free-spirit has its advantages. Las Vegas is nice in May, so are you going to a trade show or just seeing the sites?

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 8:17 PM

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127
Gary Simpson writes:

My goodness!

“…are so voluminous that no one but an idiot savant could know them.”

I am sure that I have uttered those exact same words somewhere in the past. Scary huh? Me and Lance hitting a tangent together on our own separate frequencies!

Anyway, THAT is the thing that I hate about rules. Often they start out trying to protect somebody, then, some idiot wants to make them stiffer, stronger, more encompassing, bigger penalties UNTIL everybody HAS to break them if they want to do anything!

At that point you will be treated like a criminal because you just happened to be unlucky enough to get caught.

Society is becoming so massively regulated.

You cannot even catch a single fish over here (Perth, Western Australia) without having a licence to do so. Fishing inspectors CAN confiscate not only the fish but also your rod and reel PLUS the vehicle that you used. They can even enter your home WITHOUT a warrant and conduct a search of the entire premises. And that is all before we even get to Court and get penalized financially.

Another example – it is virtually impossible to advertize anything in a newspaper without going through a massive set of hoops to absolve the newspaper of liability lest the purchaser is unhappy with the advertizer.

Then we have vicarious liability. An example is the incredibly stringent pool fencing regulations in Western Australia all designed to stop toddlers from drowning in backyard swimming pools. These laws apply ACROSS THE BOARD. You have a pool? FENCE IT! If not, face massive fines for every day that it remains unfenced. Bugger the fact that you do not have toddlers.

Law boffins everywhere are screwing the public down tighter and tighter. No wonder people are getting sick of new laws.

A law can be passed, promulgated in some obscure legal paper and then it becomes “enshrined.” Just because you have not seen that legal paper is NO EXCUSE in the eyes of the law.

Laws are maddening when they reach this farcical level.

Another mini rant from me… sorry.

Gary

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 8:57 PM

[Reply]

128

Society is becoming massively regulated because people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions.

Take the guy who sued McDonald’s because he ate cheeseburgers until he couldn’t move. Fahh. There’s the cause and root of all “Evil” Rules, the person who blames others for what he did to himself, wastes everybody’s time talking back and forth about it, and gets away with it. Society can stand to be less argumentative and more productive.

The problem is that God is dead. (Atheists, feel free to insert the word “Good” instead of God.) The Golden Rule Alone would work in a Strictly Other People Oriented society, where every person’s only concern was the Good of the Group.

But the irony here is that the more the Individual grapples for control of his own Will against the Masses, the more Rules must be laid down BY the masses in order to maintain the functionality of the society.

When people refuse to operate within a set of parameters or restrictions, you are forced to DEFINE the very rules that shouldn’t need to be explained to begin with. Because, if they were operating by a inner code of Pure Ethics, their actions would be governed by Common Decency and Respect for Fellow Man.

I really think it’s a matter of the Serpent Eating Its Own Head.

And me, I see all this rulemaking as a Territorial thing. If you are on someone else’s turf, you abide by their rules. If you don’t like those rules, you can leave and go create a new type of society elsewhere. THAT is the definition of Freedom, pure and simple.

But the irony is that creating your own society would take purposeful planning and require specific action. Most people who would rather talk endlessly about the uselessness of rules probably lack the inclination to erect a New Society, which actually would REQUIRE rules in order to BE a legitimate society, so…

I’m back in the circle again. No wonder this blog thread won’t die.

I know I’m a Rules Person at heart. Unless I think the rules and the person who made the rules are stupid, and then I just turn my focus in another direction entirely.

I just know that if this were my blog I’d want someone to tell me they’re willing to honor my rules in exchange for the space that I provide. After all, that’s only FAIR.

(she said to no one in particular)

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 10:45 PM

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129
Ed Howes writes:

What should we expect to be the resultof two centuries of PROFESSIONAL lawmaking? How much money is generated and squandered on that class of pros as a result of lawmaking? As in everything else, it is all about the money, not the need to govern every individual.

Comment provided January 10, 2007 at 11:28 PM

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130
Lance Winslow writes:

Gary,

The story of the fishing license is indeed over the top. I met someone recently who owned a mine in just North of Albuquerque in the hills about Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Get this, he had a ten-mile road and the Sierra Club was made because he owned a mine. He never mined anything, but got the property for a song. So they filed a lawsuit saying he had to water the road.

He lived outside of Midland, TX a state away and had to travel to all the court hearings, but told me of this story in Starbucks Coffee shop in Santa Fe.

Turns out the cost to water the road once a day for a year was astronomical due to water shortages, costs and remoteness for the water truck, 5 loads to water the road.

So he paved it, but the Sierra Club pressed the lawsuit so now he waters a paved road in the middle of the biggest drought in the history of New Mexico? Now that helps the environment? Dah? True Story, one of thousands.

Dina,

I agree the over regulation and incessant lawsuits are cluttering the courts and costing all of us dearly indeed. Putting small businesses out of business who employ 75% of our population.

I also agree that the sense of personal responsibility is out the window and we cannot make laws for the dumbest person or in the end only the dumbest person would follow the rules. Folks need to use their brains and deal with an imperfect world without the blame game lawsuit city motif.

Regarding the Atheists and the ‚¬“Pledge of Allegiance‚¬ or the crosses in city parks and such, well I agree that stuff is just utterly ridiculous, get a life, and really I am a non-religious type saying this.

I also find it ironic who those who cause the issues in the media and sound and fury or organize the protest only spur on the other side who once disrespected wants revenge and thus a never ending cycle fighting over the means rather than what every one really wants? I say just a bunch of silly humans really.

I also agree with you that if people had a shred more personal integrity that we would need very few rules actually, as it simply would not be a problem.

Once community is gone, all hell seems to break lose? And I fully agree that a little common decency and tolerance, perhaps respect when possible sure would solve one heck of a lot of problems. And we do not need a fireside chat topic to know that truth, as you have documented in your comments.

I think this is why I once again side with Chris and Company here, as ‚¬“guidelines‚¬ and borders within reason seem to be the proper way to handle this. It works and as Knight and soon to be King, Chris is guiding the Nation of online article authors well, ah but what does Lance-a lot know?

Ed,

I would agree that a downsizing of the bureaucracy in our United States government at all levels would increase efficiencies, save taxes, increase revenue, increase standard of living and quality of life and actually if done systematically with a ‚¬“Red Magic Marker Committee‚¬ could be lead this nation onto another two-hundred year up-cycle on the Nation lifecycle curve.

Comment provided January 11, 2007 at 2:46 AM

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131
Lance Winslow writes:

Okay here is a set of guidelines I created for my Online Think Tank Forum;

The simplistic rule of thumb here is use ‚¬“Common Sense‚¬

‚¬“This is an Online Forum‚¬ and we would expect you follow Common Sense and Standard Online Forum and Blog Etiquette with regards to your fellow participant.

In case you do not understand, here it is in black and white:

1.) Be Nice, ie ‚¬“golden rule‚¬ and no swear words that are over the top.

2.) Work hard to stay on topic without self-promoting.

3.) Only original comments here, do not post private emails, other people’s work.

4.) No Foriegn Military Spies allowed in Military Section, will report to DOD, CIA. We are watching you, so do not screw around, trust us on that. You would not be the first.

5.) Sploggers maybe turned into authorities as spies, good luck if that happens to you. We cannot take the risk, you understand.

————————

Now then after learning from all the great commenters here I now see how easy it is to make rules and all the issues that arise. So, I again have to side with easy simple guidelines and see Chris’ points in his 10 items as all valid after spending hours contemplating all this.

BTW- Since I have gotten so much benefit out of this discussion, I just wanted to say thanks to everyone and retract any hardcore comments about the guidelines or rules for this Blog. And wish to thank everyone here especially the EzineArticles.com Team for allowing a forum to discuss these rules. Great stuff, I have learned a lot.

Comment provided January 11, 2007 at 4:16 AM

[Reply]

132

Oh dear! I meant “serpent eating its own tail!”

(That’s what lack of sleep does to my brain I guess)…

Comment provided January 11, 2007 at 4:56 AM

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133
Lance Winslow writes:

Well Dina I suppose if the Oroborus kept going it would indeed be eating its own head as well? Of course in doing so the circle keeps getting smaller and smaller and as the pie contracts this means there is less to share and therefore your analogy works really good, because either way the circle becomes less and until the opportunity vanishes due to its own negative energy.

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/aionsuntelia.gif

Instead folks should be careful to expand the opportunity for all, thus expanding the pie and everyone Wins and gets more. Those who use laws to control without regard, actually end up getting less in the end. Similar to the Monkey who sticks their hand in a whole and will not let go of what they have and therefore is stuck and cannot remove their hand and is captured.

I bet John Nash has something to say about that. This is why I believe that for creativity, genius and the brilliant minds to prevail we need fewer rules over all and common sense rules, which make sense and do not restrict free markets or personal freedoms

Comment provided January 11, 2007 at 3:44 PM

[Reply]

134

Chris/Wally,

Can you confirm how you intend to enforce Guideline 1?

Jonathan

Comment provided January 11, 2007 at 4:19 PM

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135
Gary Simpson writes:

Now isn’t that odd?

We all stopped because we were awaiting the arrival of Chris or Wally to answer Jonathan’s question.

I would say that is a good example of ettiquette and self regulation.

Either that or we are all burned out on this topic.

Gary

Comment provided January 13, 2007 at 2:47 AM

[Reply]

136

I really do hope that this is a final thread!

Ettiquette would be a response from the editors?

Comment provided January 13, 2007 at 1:11 PM

[Reply]

137

Has it really been such a problem, people not understanding protocol?

I guess I’d love to know the stories behind it all. What caused the need for rules. I bet there are some pretty funny stories. Stories that were finally laughed at. I’d love to hear why and what, when the people at EzineArticles said, “Get a load of this!”

I took a few sculpture classes years ago. The rule of thumb? Yes, you really use your thumb to measure.

Comment provided January 13, 2007 at 1:22 PM

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138
Gary Simpson writes:

Kathy,

At the expense of irritating Jonathan with more commentary (re Post 136) – the REAL trouble comes when the two favorite topics of politics and religion surface.

I watched a forum go into thermo-nuclear meltdown a few months back. The amount of name calling and mud-slinging that went on was unbelievable – all because people had different points of view.

Naturally, when that happens the lurkers flood over in their droves. People sent private emails with links to the stoush address and pointers were posted on other forums directing people with “you should see what is happening over at…”

I guess we haven’t learned all that much from all those years ago when some kid in the playground yelled:

“FIGHT!”

Gary

PS: Looking back at what happened now I’ll bet that the main proponents at that forum war feel so stupid, one in particular. A war of words can start a war of the world.

Comment provided January 16, 2007 at 6:14 PM

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139
Lance Winslow writes:

The funny thing about hot topics that hit people’s hot buttons such as religion and politics is that those who are involved in the leadership of both rely on the chaos and controversy of it all to propel their control over the minds of the masses. The Media further picks up on all this to improve ratings and viewership.

Most Blogs and Forums know that such sound and fury promotes traffic so some of it is a good thing for them, as it drives participation although generally negative energy. Most of the views people have about politics are mostly about the level of exposure to either side of an issue.

Generally many people wish to try their debating abilities with others who are of a different view. Thus the gang mentality comes forth. A good book to read on this in the “Theory and Practice of Hell” but if you do read it, I warned you that it might mentally affect you.

You must always remember when debating politics or religion that a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. Since they have already committed their will to a particular view it is indeed fruitless to debate with one of an absolute opinion. Better to show them, by example.

So if you believe your religion is best, live the best life and people will see it. If you believe a political party or system of government is best, then work hard thru your own efforts to make it so. Rather than telling another show everyone.

Comment provided January 16, 2007 at 7:03 PM

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140
Gary Simpson writes:

Lance,

There were a lot of truisms in your last post. None better, in my opinion than:

“a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still”

Therefore, when a massive raft of restrictive rules is imposed, people generally tend to ignore them or find ways around them.

Two cases in point where I live:

1 – The compulsory wearing of seatbelts in vehicles – this is generally accepted by MOST people to save lives, so most people wear them.

2 – The banning of the use of cell/mobile phones whilst driving a motor vehicle – this is generally seen by MOST people as an over-reaction, so most people ignore this law.

Looks like there is still life in this old chestnut.

You have made good points.

Where is the multi-purpose-mobile-think-tank-omnibus heading now?

Gary

Comment provided January 16, 2007 at 7:38 PM

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141

I had an argument with someone over abortion once. I am pro-choice, she was no-choice.

She lost the argument only in that she became upset, ran to another room and locked the door sobbing.

I acquiesced, not because my opinion had changed but because I saw how much hers meant to her. She had that right.

Finally after realizing just how much I had hurt her, I stood outside the door and called her name. She finally opened it and I hugged her knowing that I was not going to change anyones mind simply because I had won an argument.

“a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still”

So true.

Comment provided January 16, 2007 at 8:03 PM

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142
Ed Howes writes:

To make fools of ourselves in our living rooms, is a far better thing than doing so in cyber space. All the world needs positive models. There is great satisfaction in teaming up with others in creating them.

I do not have broad forum experience One quickly identifies those who generally think before they speak and we quickly note when these slip. The civilized exchange of opinion and expression is a joy to all participants. When it happens its magic. Then it’ba9cs a wait for anouther round. Mutual education kicks butt!

And what shall I do? Oh Me! Oh My!

But post on the thread which would not die. :-)

Comment provided January 16, 2007 at 8:36 PM

[Reply]

143

Jonathan Farrington asked a question about how will we enforce rule #1:

“1) DESIRE TO ADD VALUE: Your blog comments or questions should have a desire to ADD VALUE to the discussion, be relevant and meaningful to the discussion.”

The answer: It’s a guideline… to communicate the way we would like the discussion or debate to occur.

We already know how much of a discussion-killing impact censorship has on a discussion and as such, you should find that we will rarely reject a blog comment… and the other side of that equation is that the positive tone we wish for the discussion/debates can also be distroyed by ‘comment terrorists’ with an agenda to BE OFFENSIVE on purpose.

Kathy had asked to know the story behind why the blog comment policy came to be? The answer is that it’s been on the back of our minds for a year now; and largely because of the increase in participants, lifecycle of the blog, yadda yadda; some more ‘guidelines’ were needed to fill in the blanks for those new to this type of discussion format.

And just when I think this thread has gone off topic too much that we should close the thread, Ed Howes posts a nice/short entertaining poem. :-) Therefore, we’ll keep the lights on and those who wish to unsubscribe from the email alerts on each comment can do so with one click.

Comment provided January 18, 2007 at 9:42 PM

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144
Gary Simpson writes:

Chris,

TOO TRUE:

==========
‚¬comment terrorists’ with an agenda to BE OFFENSIVE on purpose.
==========

These people aren’t really welcome anywhere.

It is EASY to offend people without realizing it. However, when it is done deliberately then that is another matter.

I always think to myself… “would I say that straight to the person’s face?”

You see it is so easy to be a cyber ninja – sneak in, cause trouble and then depart.

Gary

Comment provided January 18, 2007 at 10:55 PM

[Reply]

145

Chris,

Thank you for your response – Mexico eh? Sure beats the storms and chaos here in France!

My enquiry was really quite innocent, as having endorsed your desire to create guidelines, it occurred to me that in practice, it might be difficult to enforce?

Have I got lost in some of the rhetoric? Yes, occasionally, but never to the point of unsubscribing, I think the concept of the blog as a way of further developing the “community” is an excellent one.

My perception is that it will “self regulate”

Best Wishes

Jonathan

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 3:37 AM

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146
Ed Howes writes:

Jonathan,

You are correct about self regulation here. I have seen it many times. We get off topic, sometimes to good effect. Sometimes for a radical detour good for 5 – 10 posts. Sometimes we come back to topic while the detour also continues and one thread appears to be two interwoven. Observing the dynamics of cyber community is nearly as educational as the post content and I am guessing Chris sees it that way as well.

Because it has been largely self regulating, the suggested guidelines took a few of us by surprise. We don’t need no stinking guidelines! However, this community just had a major growth spurt, it’s a new year, EzineArticles is dedicated to constant improvements, page views can reach 10 times the number of posts. Guidelines should encourage some observers to participate and a case was made the opposite could occur. The best test is to post them and see if the community continues to grow. I think most of us sense it will.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 10:26 AM

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147
Ed Howes writes:

One more suggested improvement to this blog I have been thinking about for a week is an optional link to an author’s bio, in addition to the poster’s web site link. Sometimes we just want to read some of a posters EzineArticles catalog to know them a little better. But we can’t always find them here with an author search because they publish under a name different from the one they use on this blog.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 10:39 AM

[Reply]

148

Wow, Ed, I’ve thought about that too. I was thinking though, that would mean that the EzineArticles blog would require some technology behind it where the poster may be identified by an IP address which is then linked to their author bio, which would automatically appear when they posted.

So then I was thinking, well, that would mean that you’d have to integrate the blog with the database that manages all of the EzineArticles author info, and that in the event the Blog Commenter was either a non-EA author or perhaps was working from a different computer than the system would recognize, then you’d also have to have a “regular” comment system on the blog working in conjunction with the integrated one, to allow for incoming traffic from the outside.

And if that’s not enough to boggle the mind, the first type of integrated system that I mentioned would likely require that an author must log in to their EzineArticles account before being “connected” to the blog.

Whereby, the desire to post on this blog would be stifled by the displeasure that comes when you’re forced to log in before leaving your footprint behind (which might explain why forums don’t draw the same volume of traffic that blogs do).

In which case, we’re back to square one, which is that it would be up to the author to decide if they wanted to paste in their own author bio link. But honestly, who other than Lance is willing to take the time to have the blog page open, then open a new window, do a search on one’s own name, find the link that goes to their author bio, paste it in, and then have energy leftover to muster up a noteworthy blog post?

Not many, I bet.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 12:18 PM

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149

On the subject of improvement.

One thing that drives me wild and has caused me to on occasion to say forget it, I just won’t post that thought, is this:

Once in awhile I forget to type in the required code, I click submit, realize I forgot, try to go back and yet it is no longer there. I either have to retype it or say forget it.

Maybe this is just my computer, whatever… it sure makes me nuts.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 1:54 PM

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150

Yeah, I get to make the 150th record breaking post. ;-)

Dina,

The IP address route would not work because the majority of authors/users/members do not have dedicated IP addresses.‚  …but, you are right that it would have to be a functionality that required NO thinking on the commentors part, otherwise a barrier is errected. This blog works great because we’ve eliminated many of the barriers to participation.
Ed H,

There is a high chance that you’ll see the functionality that you mentioned in 2007 because I’ve been contemplating it as well.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 2:48 PM

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151

What about a spot for posting polls?

Would that require more rules? More trouble than its worth?

i just posted an artilce, well 3 actually, about rules, and contracts for artists and galleries. Of course we need ’em.

RULES

Gads they are everywhere!

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 3:34 PM

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152
Ed Howes writes:

Thanks Chris,

What a guy! All one has to do is ask. Every post on this thread sets a record now, if I’m not mistaken.

Kathy,

It has been many months since I have lost a comment on the back button. But I swear the security code has changed on me more than once while I was writing and editing my comment. So I created this simple process. Think, write, edit, code, submit/ publish. By leaving the code until just before submit, it doesn’t change.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 5:48 PM

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153

Thanks you QT Ed.

Wow! I did it!

and I also learned the art of bolding on this RULES strand we keep adding to.

Wow… now that is impressive! (At least I am impressed by me anyway.)

I also just added 2 more articles today.

That makes FIVE.

…all because I learned so much here.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 5:57 PM

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154
Gary Simpson writes:

Yes folks,

I have lost a comment or two or three or… before as well.

If it is only a simple post like this I don’t bother. However, if it is a longer one or something that I feel is really important then I copy it – left/right click on the mouse and hold it.

Then if something weird happens and I can’t get my comments back from the screen panel I just do a right click and paste.

I know it is a bit of an inconvenience. However, I find it REALLY annoying to compose something worthwhile and then just lose it.

Hope that might help.

Gary

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 6:03 PM

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155
Ed Howes writes:

QT2,

Above is a lovely testimonial in recognition of continuing value. Thanks for doing it.

Gary,

I just never got into that copy and paste routine for the very occasional lost post, even if they happened twice in a day. Usually the rewrite was very close to the original and rarely, better. What seems to be a waste of time teaches me patience. But there has been a time or two when tired, I shut the machine off and went to bed. Take That EzineArticles!

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 6:53 PM

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156
Andy Beard writes:

It wouldn’t actually be very hard to have WordPress pulling details from the main EzineArticles site, such that if you are an author on EzineArticles, you are also a security level 1 member to the blog.

There are a fair amount of plugins out there that help with database sharing with various BBS systems that are under GPL, but I am sure the people handling the backend platform here could handle that fairly easily.

Another good idea would be to cross the void between Article Marketing and blogging, by adding a MyBlogLog community for the blog.

With the addition of a plugin that would immediately provide a way to add an avatar, though it would be slightly smaller than the current EzineArticles one.

It would also be good to add a plugin that concatenates links. Long links can break the CSS of a blog very easily.

Comment provided January 19, 2007 at 6:54 PM

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157

The CAPTCHA system we use here is an unfortunate reality in the comment-spam infested world we live in.

Before we used CAPTCHA on blog comments, we had to sift through thousands of weekly comment spams. Yes, THOUSANDS per WEEK.

With CAPTCHA, comment spam is down to 2-7 per week or about 20 per month… which is significantly less than the 5000-8000 comment spams per month we were drowning in pre-CAPTCHA system.

Andy,

Most likely we will not be going to MyBlogLog because we’re CMS developers enough that we’d rather tie the blog into our current MySQL db’s…and if we can’t do that, we’ll end up replacing WordPress with our own blog-like software.

Comment provided January 20, 2007 at 1:00 AM

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158
GL McClendon writes:

I found no problem with the new policy. Most of the time we are to quick to down the other fellow and we will say anything as long as we are not in front of the person we are dogging.

You were spot on in your article

Comment provided March 8, 2010 at 9:38 PM

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