Ted Gross Wonders About Article Submission Validity

EzineArticles expert author Ted Gross in his blog: (Article Submissions – Worth Your While or A Vast Waste Of Time?) muses about several things to talk about:

Ted said, “And before you put this down, just at a check, ezinearticles.com where I usually submitted articles in the past, is listed at alexa.com at 528. Which means it is the 528th most popular site on the net – and that dear people translates into millions of hits a day.”

Technically, we’re at 488 today on Alexa based on a 3 month average weight (we’re actually at 395 as of today); but I can assure you that does not translate into millions of page views per day. Let’s get something clear: When Ted said, “hits” — I’m pretty certain he meant page views (one human looking at one whole page in a given session); because technically, we do manage many millions of hits or transactions on a daily basis; but our daily page views are not even close to ‘millions’.

Ok, Ted gets to his primary point, “But does it do anything for me as an author? No suspense here. The answer to that is categorically, 100%, without a shadow of a doubt – NO.”

Thankfully, the masses do not share Ted’s opinion. Hey, we can’t please everyone.

I further respectfully disagree with Ted’s comment about how we use this blog to:

“…the other that the hype going up to convince people they are “authors” is way over the top.”

Geez, if a person writes an article, if they are not an ‘AUTHOR’, then what exactly are they? :-)?

There’s more that I disagree with in Ted’s blog entry, but his first commentor (Talia Mana) really makes a good counter point:

“I have never submitted to those ezinearticles places but it is probably a good idea to draw traffic to my website and build the proverbial “platform” (necessary for a non fiction author who is not related to the Kennedys)”

Meaning, *use* sites like ours to help you build a base of demand and traffic for yourself and your business/brand.

Ted followed his blog entry up with another one (Article Submission As Part Of The Viral Process) that further clears some air:

“…please remember this is in regard to authors who desire to beef up their portfolio and not those people who are looking at the numerous opportunities on the World Wide Web.”

Yeah, that does make Ted’s previous comments more valid in the right context because submitting to EzineArticles or our competitors does not make sense if done for the wrong career reasons. I think the real issue that many have told me that irritates them off about article submission is that you don’t get rich quick. It takes time and effort to build market demand for yourself, no matter who you are.

In closing, the real reason you should submit your quality original articles to EzineArticles.com directly is to generate qualified visitors and traffic back to your website from us directly and if you get a boost from syndication land, call that a bonus.

UPDATED DECEMBER 3rd 2006: Ted updated a new blog entry in response to this blog discussion: [Looks Like We Touched A Sensitive Spot…]

22 Comments


1

Humm, I read his blog post, and I’m inclined to agree with him about the actual point he was trying to make, but I think he missed the point of what article submission sites are all about. Nowhere on EzineArticles have I ever been told that I could promote myself as a published author with a byline by writing here… that’s not the purpose.

As an acquisitions editor for a small publisher, I would myself would not consider EzineArticles as being ‘published’ simply because it’s not a paid byline. There are plenty of actual print publications I don’t consider ‘published’ too, for the same reason. Paid bylines and tear sheets are far more important than blogs or unpaid internet posts.

I also agree that someone querying and agent or publisher would not want to put article submission sites on their query or their writing resume for that purpose. Then again, when I query a publisher on a crime novel I’ve written, I don’t put my published, contracted poetry books on that query either, because they don’t relate to what I’m submitting. Everything has a purpose and place, and article submissions to submission sites don’t belong on a professional resume.

However…Mr. Gross is omitting something crucial for authors of all genres and styles and that is EXPOSURE. It’s crucial… your name MUST be known, good or bad, it must be known, our no one is going to buy your writing, no matter what the style is. Article submission sites, especially those who allow for syndication, are great for getting that exposure.

Of course, linkbacks and traffic to my site are definitely the primary draw for me to submit here, and EzineArticles by far sends more traffic my way than all the other submission sites I use COMBINED. But syndication and exposure are secondary reasons for doing what I do – not to mention, for my editing services, the hope of branding myself as an expert in my field, by providing quality information and content, whether someone purchases my services or not.

Exposure is so important nowadays for so many reasons, and EzineArticles gives exactly what it states it will – exposure and traffic, and sometimes even syndication for additional exposure and traffic.

Did I mention I got a new client from an article that I submitted here that was picked up on someone else’s site? THAT is what it’s all about to me.

But Mr. Gross seems to be looking at the site for a purpose other than it was intended…when you use it for what it’s meant to be used for, EzineArticles ROCKS!

Comment provided December 1, 2006 at 11:20 AM

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2

Waa, waa, waa…………….

IMHO

Comment provided December 1, 2006 at 2:42 PM

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Ed Howes writes:

Sounds like a repeat of a professional amateur discussion we have had before. An author is a writer paid directly for their writing. A writer may be paid indirectly and secondarily, but this writer is not an author. Sounds like a rather arbitrary use of semantics to me. And there are people who start internet businesses and rapidly generate positive cash flow. If memory serves, there are testimonials here at EzineArticles to that effect. Like it or not there is the smaller communities within the larger which provide social benefits and opportunities, like forum community, authors reading writers and vice versa :-) in and out of the same categories, personal off site correspondences with fellow writers. I personally have had great affection for this particular forum and alwys feel as though I am speaking to team mates. I asked a more experienced EzineArticles friend if communal forums like this one were common. She said at one time, but not now much.

So this forum itself is special, is now a given – a totally non quantifiable benefit from having a home base publisher. My thoughts are read often enough here to satisfy and they are also being read many elsewheres over time. It seems organic to me to be here. Quantify that. It surprises me, given the number of “expert authors”?:-) who publish here, surely it is a testimony to how very busy expert authors can be. What freaks me out is when I consider the number of “expert authors”? and the compatiritive few who speak here on a frequent basis. I am as pleased with this forum as the chief contributor and moderator. Call me writer if you will.

Comment provided December 1, 2006 at 8:39 PM

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Lance Winslow writes:

HA HA HA HA HA HA! Whatever, there will always be doubters. HA HA HA HA HA!

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 12:20 AM

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Ted Gross writes:

This is Teddy. And though Chris got most of it right I really have to make a point clear. One of those posts was directed at real Authors – e.g. those attempting to make a living by publishing with bona-fide publishers. (This does NOT mean or imply that EzineArticles are not bona-fide). What it does mean is that we are talking about the publishing houses, the literary agents and the print or internet mags. These are the authors being discussed in the first article. And I do not back down from my point. Writing articles for article submission sites does NOT add in any way to any portfolio for an author of this type. No literary agent or publishing house or editor, could care less what articles you produced for an article submission site. That is simply fact. (Indeed mentioning it in a query would loose points for you!)

HOWEVER, when dealing with creating a “name” for yourself, in building up your web site, in getting those links out there on the Internet, in creating a viral method of people out there getting to know you, then article submission is simply one of the best ways to do it.

Chris, the two articles were meant for TWO different segments of the population. And many authors, do want to get a “buzz” about their sites. (Take a look at Miss Snark’s recent Post about author’s web sites.) BUT it would be fallicious to imply that by writing articles for article submission – is a good way to improve chances as an “Author”. And I say again. If you are sending query’s out to agents, the last thing they want to see is a mention of articles in article submission sites. Bad idea to mention it, as it will just show a degree of non-professionalism and agents do look for professionalism.

This DOES NOT IN ANY WAY DEMEAN ARTICLE SUBMISSION. And I made that incredibly clear in my articles (and there are more posts either at Cobwebs Of The Mind (http://teddygross.blogspot.com/) or at T3 – Teddy’s Techie Tips (http://teddystips.blogspot.com/). The point is do not mix up author with author – publisher with publisher. Two different venues for two different purposes.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 10:54 AM

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Ted Gross writes:

And just to make this point clearer. This is the FULL quote from the post quoted here: (And I stand by it, and I do submit to EzineArticles.com, and I think it does meet all its promised goals and I did say that in my post). – But the POST you quoted was talking to a totally different segment of the population.

“As authors – this is a colossal waste of time if you think it is going to further your writing career. As owners of web sites, ezines or blogs it is still one of the best ways to get your name and site out there to the public for free. So the message is – don’t confuse the two.

Article writing, no matter how much the owners of the sites want to tell you and legitimize themselves, is NOT going to turn you into an author or writer for real publication or landing an agent purposes. And it should never show up on your credentials when corresponding with agents or publishers.

On the other hand, if you have a business or web site or blog not connected with writing and want to get “eyeballs” and “hits” – (useless or not this is a different argument) – then article submission is certainly a bona-fide way to go.”

And I will challenge any one to show me one REAL agent or editor who thinks that your article submissions are “publication credits”.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 11:07 AM

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7
Lance Winslow writes:

Baloney Ted,

In fact I am writing some Books right now and my articles have helped me gain the attention needed to talk Turkey with publishers for a series of books. Additionally, I have had many of my articles published in print all over the place. Many of the articles in Industry Trade Journals too. You know Ted, I think you should stop knocking EzineArticles, I know for a fact that many authors here have had their articles published in print in all sorts of places. I think you might be surprised and to that point, I started writing articles with NO experience and today I have become a writer and currently using much of my content already produced, with some editing, touch up and a little re-writing I have enough now to complete the following books:

Futurist E-Books

Artificial Intelligence and Possible Futures
Comets, Asteroids, Meteorites and Earth Civilizations
Computer Brain Interfaces of the Future
Economics of the First Decade of the 21st Century
Franchise in the World
Future Auto Technologies
Future Aviation Technologies
Future Concepts and Technology
Future Underwater Technologies
Growing Our Own Fuel; Switch to E85 Ethanol
Killing Hurricanes and Weather Control
LED Lighting of the Future
MAV’s; Micro Air Vehicle Strategies in the Future
Killing Locust Plagues
Pure Opinion and Politics of 2005
Pure Opinion in Politics of 2006
Pure Opinion and Politics of 2007
RFID and the Future
Robotics of the Future
Smart Dust of the Future
Smart Garages of the Future
Space Colonies of the Future
The Flow of All We Know
The Future of High-Performance Motorcycles
The Future of IT
The Future Personal Tech
The Human Animal Debate
Truck Technologies of the Future
UAVs of the Future
Video Game Design Strategies for the Future
Virtual Reality of the Future
Wind Cars of the Future

Military e-books

Advanced Weapons Technologies Of the Future
Human Fighter Pilots Versus UAVs with AAI Computer Systems
Robotic Net Centric Battlefield of the Future
The Future of Military Air Superiority
Winslow on War; Military Strategy and Philosophy
Winslow on War; War Strategies for the 21st Century

Other ebooks

An Atheist Discussion on the Absurdity of Human Religion
Biking across America-Lower Latitudes
Common Sense Psychology 101
Downtown Revitalization
Home Schooling Tips for Parents and Educators
Honesty and Humanities
How to Become a Writer
How to Run a Successful Red Ribbon Week Program
Human Psychology of Winning
Hypersonic Humans and Overachievers in Society
Internet Fraud and Freedom in the Balance
Lessons for Internet Forum Users and Bloggers
Motivation, Goal Setting and Success Strategies
Online Article Writing
Red Ribbon Week Planning Strategies
RV Knowledge Primer
Social Issues of Our Time
The Flow of Thought
The Flow of Transportation and Distribution
The Flow of Water
The Hypothetical Science of Common Sense
The Power of Presence and Brand Marketing in the 21st Century
Think on It
Winning Strategies for the Long-Distance Runner
World Social Issues; Solving the Problems through Proper Planning

Science Fiction eBooks

Alien and Human Civilizations and the Future of Inter Species Law
The Cubed Experience
5u53j Son of Winslow
Life is a Wave

Small-Business eBooks

Adventures in Advertising for Advanced Entrepreneurs
Bonsai in Blitz Marketing for Small Business
Business Ethics for Entrepreneurs
Direct-Mail Marketing Strategies for Entrepreneurs
Online Internet Web Site Marketing Strategies
Small-Business Image and Presentation
Small-Business Networking Strategies
Starting a Boat Cleaning Business
Starting a Mobile Auto Detailing Business
Starting a Mobile Carwash Business
Starting a Mobil Oil Change Business
Starting a Mobil Truck Wash Business
Starting Your Own Detail Shop
Starting an Aircraft Cleaning Service
Strategies and Considerations for Car Washes
The Dirt on Multilevel Marketing

Business eBooks

Change Management and Averting Chaos
Customer Service Keeps Them Coming Back
Entrepreneurial Insights for the Overachiever
Finite Capacity Scheduling for Service Businesses
Marketing Magic and Market Share Management
Non-MBA Business Management Strategies
Over Regulation in America
Sales Management Strategies
Sales Training Tips from Real World
Selling and Negotiating with Integrity
Strategic Planning for Entrepreneurial Startups
Teleselling in the Business Battlespace
The Case for Off-Shoring and Outsourcing
Understanding the Franchise Business Model

In fact as we speak I am lining up interviews, co-authors on some of these books, publishers, etc. And I have a hell of a lot of interest, thanks to EzineArticles.com . In fact I would be willing to allow EzineArticle Authors here to co-author with me if they are an Expert on any of these topics. I feel that strongly about it. If you attack EzineArticles you are attacking ME and if you attack me, I will reciprocate, I find your comments actually rather slanderous and unacceptable and full of falsehood, irrelevance and lacking any knowledge. You have offended me. Apologize!

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 1:40 PM

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8

Lance:

Which online scam publisher are you working for?

Ted:

I understand exactly what you’re saying. Every drop of it. Makes total sense.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 2:06 PM

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9

Lance,

Actually, I think Ted cleared up his position that he’s not knocking EzineArticles or the article marketing model directly… but rather he’s saying that, from his perspective, you can’t become a published author (in the atom world (meaning PRINT media)) by going the article syndication route.

What’s really neat is that everyone sees the “article marketing strategy” through different perspectives all based on their current values and pursuits…

Dina,

Wow, spear throwing today? That’s not like you or did I completely mis-understand your comment to Lance?

Everyone,

Tolerance and respect for the opinion of others, even when we violently disagree with them. :)!

I didn’t want this blog to only cover the bright and sunny side of the article writing & marketing world and to stretch our minds and get reality checks, I know it’s important to try to understand the perspective of others who might disagree with our bright shiny view of the world.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 2:16 PM

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10
Ted Gross writes:

Lance:

I am NOT knocking EzineArticles. And if I wanted to, it would have been outright and to the point.

I am talking about the normative publishing route. You can vent and rage all you want but those are the rules. Self publishing is NOT considered a “published” credit. POD, self published and self published ebooks are simply not “credits”.

That is fact. No matter how well your books are written, no matter how many people buy them, it simply is not going to land you an agent and publisher. Indeed, I searched Amazon.com for a book of yours, under the name, and found nothing. (Please correct me if I am wrong.)

If you have published with an agent and publisher then I am sure everyone, including myself, would love to know who the agent and publisher is. However, if all those ebooks you listed are self-published they will not help you one iota with an agent.

And when you do publish your book in the normative channels, like it or not, it will be called your “first book”. That is the bottom line. That is the way the publishing world works.

Rant and rave at them. Not at me. My blog is to help authors with information for agents and publishers and writing in that fashion. It is a mixture of information and humor for them.

I do not make up the rules of this industry. But listing 1000 ebooks that were self-published is simply not going to land you an agent. That is the reality of the business. Wether you agree with it or not.

I wish you luck in all your endeavors. But I was clear from the very beginning. I have nothing to say I am sorry for. You are certainly welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to mine. But no matter how much you want to say your self published ebooks make you an author in the traditional publishing world, it just is not going to happen.

I hope that in the near future you do land an agent, get a great contract and publish a good seller in the field you wish to publish in. But I can guarantee you that any agent looking at your publishing credits, will discount every self-published book you mention. That is life. Those are the rules of the industry. And that is what my blog says. Clearly. Without knocking anyone else.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 2:36 PM

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11
Lance Winslow writes:

Dina,

What is an online Scam Publisher? I don’t trust just any garbage on the Internet, I have my Writer’s Market Guide, please? And as soon as I close these deals, I will tell everyone who they are.

Chris,

Sorry this incorrect. We know that many article authors have had their articles re-printed in many places in print. I have, there was another Blog post a month or so ago, where many authors had come forward with their articles being re-printed. Actually, when I was in NY, I mentioned my 10,000 articles and they looked it up on the Internet while I was there. In Boston, although a specialty publisher of Futurist type stuff, they too, said “hmmm” when I mentioned it. I never got any “your not professional” comments or dirty looks for online article authoring. I did get a ‚¬“so what look‚¬ when I told them I co-authored a Franchising Business Book with the SBDC. But to say that publishers look down on you for having online article submission, well; That simply is not so.

Further if someone is so downtrodden with rejection letters from Professional Literary Publishers, maybe they need to change their tactics in selling themselves, and stop running redline with the rest of the pack and try new things. You know personally I think many authors of books are completely “depressed people” and need Prozac and they fear rejection.

Hell sometimes you are lucky if you even hear back at all or even get one of those stupid form letters. You know what, Smile, say thank you and make a paper airplane with it and sail it across the room and go to the next, and the next after that. Ask them what they are looking for first, know your customer and sell yourself and your pitch and stop pitching crap no one wants to read?

Everyone wants to be an author these days, half of middle aged America is underemployed and wants to be an author, but only the competitive diehards who never give up are going to published and most of them are going to paid next to nothing for it. Remember; Sun Tzu, fight the battles you can fight, move on and keep moving. Strong survive, weakness walks, professional authors should stop acting like pigeon heads and attacking online article marketing. If their stuff is so good, why do they care? I’ll tell you why, their stuff isn’t and the readers are less sophisticated, there is more competition than ever before and fewer people reading. Deal with it, as that is the stuff free markets are made of. What do they want some cheese with that whine?

I could care less if anyone says that online article authoring does not count for your credentials as an author, it counts to me, I am proud of it and I plan on putting it on my list of achievements and resume. Because it does show you are serious. Anyone who thinks it shows un-professionalism does not understand the future of books and thinks that the print publishers do not either, they do, they see it coming too; I was told this by a publisher even. You know, look at the Sony Reader, soon there will be lists of books, not in the stores for people to download onto. So you better get those eBooks written and have them edited and ready to rip when they start moving forward with it all? What about the new Google Bar search feature for Digital Books too? Digital is the new, and anything in a digital format is just as relevant as not. In the future it will only be a matter of quality and not the medium. This is not Print VS Digital, it is innovation and the forward progression of books, reading and reality.

Indeed a good portion of these folks who call themselves “Professional Authors” are kidding themselves, in that not all of their stuff is not that good. It reminds me of nearly every industry I have ever competed in. The so-called industry professionals are so worried about losing their strong hold and anyone offering services for less and anyone who might take away from their fiefdom, that they rail against what they know so little about.

There is more than one reason to use online article submission sites, I can think of 10 and establishing yourself and boosting your confidence, resume and your status as an author is one of them. Digital Articles, Digital eBooks and digital everything is where it is at and Multi-media will replace the fine literature of past periods the game is evolving and I suggest everyone who is serious; Play this game to WIN! Sorry, I do not buy T.G.’s logic and from personal observation, believe it sends the wrong message too.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 3:02 PM

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12
Ed Howes writes:

If it is as Ted perceives it to be the professional publishing industry sure has its collective head where the sun does not shine. For if the industry is unconcerned with the quality of my non professional catalog and only with the professionally published content, it is saying we are a craft union whose intention is to prevent access to certain people. Which is akinn to an employer refusing to hire a graduate for lack of practical experience.

As competative as professional publishing must be, it is clear some in the industry are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. It will become like the music business. The major houses will throw your audition recording in the trash and when you make six figures with an independent label they are calling you on the phone asking you to sign a contract for three albums. They are all going the way of the dinosaur as well. It is a new age. Let the 20th century people pretend nothing will ever change as it does so under their noses. It has not escaped my attention Ted is insisting on the industry definition of author. Not only does he stand on his point, he stands on his definitions. Hang in there Ted!

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 3:20 PM

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13
Lance Winslow writes:

Ted,

Actually Ted, I know exactly what you are talking about I have been dealing with this for the last month and a half and will continue too for the next year. You know replying to a letter or follow up from a phone call; Synopsis, Table of Contents, first one or two-chapters and last chapter, outline, and careful to be precise and follow all the ridiculous idiosyncrasies in your wording, give them exactly what they want, because they are so very important and special? Yah, yah, yah. I realize some of my books will have to be turned into eBooks, as there will be no current market for them, but some will get published, pretty certain of it after my meetings. Maybe I might have to spend some money and take a risk self-publishing, tell me something I don’t know? Please.

I have co-authored one book in print with the SBDC Small Business Development Centers of America, SBA offshoot, irrelevant to this discussion. The book titles listed in my post here I am writing now and using my article content. I’d be glad to discuss my print book deal if and when it is completed and signed, which I am waiting for actual confirmation after my meeting.

Your Blog has false information and is degrading to the online submission site category. I do not find it humorous, I think it is hurtful and contains falsehoods. Personally I think I believe that you speak way too highly of yourself and believe much of it to be the makings of an unearned ego, which in fact I believe is allowing you to cloud your judgment and clarity. When I sat down with publishers, as they I often travel in their circles and family, (Winslow) the 10,000 articles online was not met with any negative at all, nor would someone with 500 articles or 1,000.

For such a smart man, Ted, you should learn a little more about entrepreneurs, as most publishers are, that is if you are talking to the decision maker, actual, you should not ever wish an entrepreneur ‚¬“Luck‚¬ they do not need it and it ain’t luck. If you are going to tell people how to pitch books, you might consider to ditch the ‚¬“luck‚¬ comments. You see, it is not luck writing 10,000 articles or 3500 pages with of company manuals, running a franchise company or finding a publisher who specializes in my subjects or is willing to take a chance. You know to me when someone says ‚¬“good luck‚¬ it means the same as ‚¬“F-off moron!‚¬ and that is how you meant it isn’t it? Sure you did, because you know how to pitch books to publishers? What is this really about Teddy?

Publishing credits are not always as important as credentials in the field for which you are writing, and if you list online articles you wouldn’t list them as credits anyway, but you should still list them, I am and I do.

So tell me Ted, why did you bring this subject up anyway? To put down online article authors or to tell authors to boycott online articles submission sites. What is your motive Ted. What is your point and why did you write that on your Blog anyway? Hmm? Are you really just trying to warn authors not to list their online articles, if so you are giving bad advice. You stated in your Blog, why bother? Hmm? How about why not? I think you should remove or rewrite your blog post to say; ‚¬“Why not post articles on online articles submission sites;

1.) It cannot hurt;
2.) You never know who might read it;
3.) It is just one more thing you can list;
4.) All the other things you already listed;
5.) It shows you are active in the field and constantly writing new material.

You not write ‚¬“Why Bother‚¬ but rather ‚¬“Why not post to online article websites, as you have everything to gain and Nothing to lose!‚¬

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 3:44 PM

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Ted Gross writes:

What I intensely dislike is when people put words in my mouth.

I wished you luck and I meant it. You are making such thoughts incredibly difficult. Where you made that leap from wishing you “Good Luck” to telling you to go whatever…is beyond my comprehension.

As to what I write and don’t write in my own Blog. I was really not aware I had to ask for your approval.
And if you bothered to READ, you would have seen 2 posts – NOT ONE – which dealt with article submissions. But obviously you want to be called a legitmate author, based upon your self-published credits. That is just not going to happen in the publishing industry. And if you give that impression, it is you, I humbly submit, who is giving the really wrong impression to authors.

Nor has anything you said:

1. Countered the fact that not one of your books is up in Amazon or B&N.
2. Showed even an elementary understanding of the publishing industry
3. Proven that you are an expert in the industry.

If my advice to authors, was not to use article submission sites, WHICH IT WAS NOT, then that would have been MY advice. Not yours. Argue with it. Sanely. Don’t allude to business deals that you still cannot put up any proof for, nor to “deals” in the backroom, without agent or publisher names. That is like saying to someone, “Yeah she was almost pregnant.”

And every single good author I know of, has such things “out there”. Agents reading their MS. or publishers reviewing a WIP. Or even contracts. And you know what? Then the editors work with the authors. They work on the book. It is a process. Even in the accepted Ebook publishers on the Internet, there is an acceptance-editing process by professional editors.

The more you say, the more it is clear that you are either incredibly frustrated with the normative publishing process – which I totally and completely understand (and to make this clear that was not said in any cynical fashion) – or you are just ranting at the wrong person.

Now as to your list:
1.) It cannot hurt – I said this in my second article. Read it.
2.) You never know who might read it – As Above.
3.) It is just one more thing you can list As Above
4.) All the other things you already listed;
5.) It shows you are active in the field and constantly writing new material – This means NADA. Zilch. On an article submission site. It means something if you were published in Atlantic Monthly and the New Yorker. And if you are published in those mags, you are not going to be submitting anymore to article submission sites simply because you will be working hard on your next article to another print mag. Indeed your agent would break both your arms if you did not concentrate on getting your articles into the print mags.

I think it was EzineArticles itself that asked for QUALITY over QUANTITY.

Please do NOT put words in my mouth. You don’t like what I am saying – that is your right. You have a right to your opinion and I respect it. Do not however, tell me what I can say or cannot say. Do not put words in my mouth. And do not blame me for simply stating what goes on in the industry.

If you manage to break the mold then once again I wish you all the luck in the world. Until that point in time – when article submissions and self published ebooks become a feather in your cap with literary agents and big name publishers and not something negative – I stick to what I said.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 4:32 PM

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Lance Winslow writes:

Ted, it is more than that actually, it is not just that I do not like what you wrote and yes I will have to deal with it. It is the fact that the information is not credible. For instance one of your books written in 1982 is no longer available, another is also no longer available, out of print I suppose. Nevertheless if you are going to tell people what to write for credentials when pitching their sysnopsis or books to publishers, then you need to have successfuly pitch a book within the last year, don’t you think so?

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 4:46 PM

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Ted Gross writes:

Lance:

You just made me laugh. Whether or not my old children’s books are available, and whether or not I have had published short stories in the past year – they are all “legitimate” credits in my CV for agents.

Not one of my EzineArticles is a legitimate credit in a CV for my agent or publisher. Period.

And btw, in my POST I did mention my articles and the stats to prove the point. I did not hide it. Indeed for the purpose they worked great.

So despite all, the fact the books were published with normative publishers, that they have ISBN numbers – and the rest of the short stories are in a literary site, this all is legitimate credits for a CV for an agent.

You wrote out your ebook self-published CV. I did not ask for it. Thus I had to relate to it.

This is at an impasse. I humbly say, I have said most of what can be said here at EzineArticles.com Blog. I hear your point, I don’t agree. You don’t agree with me. All that is great. I do wish you all the luck in the world. I have no wish to continue along these lines where you seem to take this ever more personal. Such arguments after a time become self-destructive and pointless.

You are welcome to continue. I wish you all the luck in the world, and hope that you do meet all your expectations. If I have anything further to add to this discussion I will do so over at my Blog.

Really, I wish you all the luck in all your endeavors.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 5:13 PM

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Lance, are you a friend or foe of EzineArticles.com?

I know you are a great cheerleader, rebel rouser, Man With a Mission, inspiring speaker and all that. So, how ’bout tipping this discussion that way? I know you if anyone can do it. You certainly have the energy for it.

Keep on doing your part to create an inviting atmosphere on Chris’s blog, as you have done before. Do it out of respect for Chris and for the article marketing industry.

Encourage authors to develop an article marketing plan to crank out more “product.”

That is your best strength, is it not? Production?

It IS O-K if Ted wants to support web article marketing as a traffic builder, and NOT support web article marketing as a book-writing clip builder. They are two entirely different realms.

I think he expressed his view quite excellently, without putting anyone down.

Dina

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 5:16 PM

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Lance Winslow writes:

I am not pleased that what you write in your Blog contains severe and troubling falsehoods about the validity of online article submission sites and the value of authored articles for the publishers to better ascertain the credentials of the author pitching their work.

Well, then I wish you ‚¬“Good Luck‚¬ then also in pitching your upcoming book projects to publishers, perhaps you need it. If the jab of wishing ‚¬“good luck‚¬ to an entrepreneur or achiever is beyond your comprehension then you are not one, nevertheless, such ignorance of this fact does not alleviate the problems it will cause you in negotiation and getting along with winners.

Please contact me in the future prior to writing anything on your Blog with regards to online article submission websites, thank you. I was only able to read one of your Blog posts before I became enraged and had physically sickened, while I searched the house for polypropylene soled boots. A legitimate author is one who authors a work in the written word and believe they are legitimate, writer’s prose. There is no such compound word found in the dictionary as Legitimate Author. I indicated that I am a co-author of Franchising 101, go find my name in it at Borders or Barnes and Noble.

One does not have to be an expert in the Publishing Industry to know BS when he hears it in my view. You know darn good and well one cannot claim a publishing deal until it is completed and only a fool would go around putting Publishers names out there or even sending out press releases until after the deal was signed and it says in the contract it is okay do so, I will let folks know when that is. Every author is frustrated with the Publishing Process; it is a game just like the Venture Capitalists Play, so your comment on that point is equally irrelevant, besides obviously from your performance you think so too. Personally I think you have lived in New York too long, it ain’t the only game in town and your comments sound like you have your nose in the air and stick up your pooper.

You state; ‚¬“And if you are published in those mags, you are not going to be submitting anymore to article submission sites simply because you will be working hard on your next article to another print mag.‚¬

Baloney, I have averaged 8,000 to 16,800 words a day for weeks on end. So, you are too linear in your thought, somewhat under whelming in your work ethic and make troubling absolute comments in my non-humble opinion. Further the New Yorker is not favored reading material at all to most Americans.

You state: ‚¬“You don’t like what I am saying – that is your right.‚¬

Indeed and it has been duly noted, further I do not believe from personal experience that you do not know what you are talking about, you are not giving sound advice and your linear thought is so 2001’ish. I think we need a second and third opinion from a much more credible source, thank you very much?

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 7:01 PM

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Lance Winslow writes:

Ted,

You have stated; ‚¬“Not one of my EzineArticles is a legitimate credit in a CV for my agent or publisher. Period.‚¬

Perhaps not unless you are writing a book for the ‚¬“for Dummies‚¬ series on Blogging or Internet RSS Real Simple Syndication and also with only 37 articles there, you maybe right, not worth mentioning.

I agree that; ‚¬“the fact the books were published with normative publishers, that they have ISBN numbers – and the rest of the short stories are in a literary site, this all is legitimate credits for a CV for an agent.‚¬

I concur those are of value to an agent, but warn in discounting online articles. To say that they are of no value is incorrect.

You state: ‚¬“This is at an impasse. I humbly say, I have said most of what can be said here at EzineArticles.com Blog. I hear your point, I don’t agree.‚¬

You are not humble, you are exhibiting behavior of a New York with its nose in the air and like you are better than everyone else. That is not ‚¬“humbly‚¬ anything, in my view.

You state; ‚¬“I do wish you all the luck in the world.‚¬

There you go again, gee do I look like I need ‚¬“luck‚¬ to you? How many times are you going to wish me ‚¬“Luck‚¬ anyway?

You state for the fifth time; ‚¬“Really, I wish you all the luck in all your endeavors.‚¬

You know sport, until you are batting a 1000, you need to stop giving advice and stop diminishing the value of online article marking in the so-called crumbling, stodgy world of print publishing, because what you are saying simply is not so.

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 7:17 PM

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Lance Winslow writes:

Dina,

I’ll have you know that you can become a writer and author by using this online article venue and I am even writing an eBook on that exact subject. In fact my co-author of ‚¬“How to Become a Writer‚¬ which is a book I intend to give away to anyone who wishes to become a writer, has this for the Introduction;

Introduction
How to Become a Writer

Guts and words? That’s all it takes. A writer is a person just like you who strings words together, puts them in order, edits them for content, and dumps them all into a book, an article, an essay, a poem, or a newsletter.

Writer’s face challenges of the word variety every day, often focused on depletion, recognition, and the intimate desire to be heard. We just wanna have fun! Declaring our one set of recognizable skills as our profession requires a bit of ego, but we dare to succeed, and people read.

The how about doing it? That’s another matter. Stringing together nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, and other necessary words to make a sentence takes some thought, although we do it every day in conversation. On paper, they look different. Words on paper take on a life of their own. Whether it’s casual compliancy or defiant rebellion, the words come to life in black and white?

How do you become a writer? You declare it. You do it. And you’ll know when you’ve arrived. It won’t be a publication, or a written work that tells you. Your ego will scratch it on the walls of your heart, through the corridors of your brain, and into every inch of your being – you will know.

I’m a writer.

Jan Verhoeff
http://brandyourmarket.com

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – —

Additionally, in further contemplation I believe that many of us have experiences, observations and things we want to say and one way to do this is through writing. Others are of a creative nature and well we cannot turn off our minds and it makes sense to become a writer. Unfortunately, writing is a skill that must be learned. Many of us have a predisposition for writing and perhaps had some success as teens, but did not pursue that venue as we grew up and chose majors in college or careers out in the world. If you are at the point where you would like to become a writer then you maybe pleasantly surprised that it is possible to teach yourself how to write.

There are an abundance of books, online courses and helpful writing consultants to help get you started. All you need to do is to set becoming a writer as your goal and then get busy writing and practicing until you become proficient. What should you start writing about you ask? Well anything that comes to mind is the answer some professional writers give to novices. It is important to get use to writing a lot so that you can produce the word counts needed to complete your writing projects, essays, short stories, articles or novels on a timely basis. The more you write the better you will get provided you stick to the basics and do not teach yourself bad habits.

You see Dina, you are a Writer or an Author when you reach the point that you know. No one can take that away from you and this ‚¬“Professional‚¬ or ‚¬“Legitimate Author‚¬ syndrome and the approval from another is bogus. The day you feel you are a writer, You Are!!! And the day you get paid for your first article, eBook, short story, essay or whatever you are a Professional Writer or Author. Indeed, that is the truth of it. To take that away from anyone here at EzineArticles who works hard to author quality articles is not fair.

At 10,000 articles if I wish to call myself an Author, I have the right, without my other eBooks that have over a 3 million views each on my websites since 1999 or the co-Authored Franchise Book, published by Dearborne in 1998 and still available at Barnes and Noble today and god only knows how many of those have been sold. I submit to you my good Dina, that the article authors here can become every bit as good as those experts who tell them they are not real, or don’t count or have some how not made the grade, because they have not been published in the New Yorker Magazine, who cares about that magazine.

Writing articles and putting them online hear may someday yield one of the greatest authors of our time. Who knows where the next Issac Asimov may come from and with nearly 40,000 article authors here, it could very well come from EzineArticles.com and we should not let anyone tell us otherwise. If you believe You Can’t, then you are right and I for one believe in the authors here and I have seen their work and their improvements with each and every day.

The literary world must yield to the power of numbers and the growing trend, we can, we will and we must press on. And any publisher either knows that or should have known and it is time that the World understand that the game is changing and we are coming. The authors at EzineArticles.com are some of the finest in the world and they are improving daily and it is noticeable, obvious and readily apparent to me, that nothing will stop them now Dina!

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 7:42 PM

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Lance Winslow writes:

Dina,

As you know there are many Online Article Marketing Strategies and Techniques. You see Online Article Marketing is a very effective way to achieve targeted traffic; customers coming to your web site who are more opt to buy your products or services. Online Article Marketing is writing informational articles with a byline on the bottom that has a link to your web site. By submitting your articles to an online article submission web site that syndicates the articles they will end up all over the Internet and drive traffic to you.

I have made ‚¬“The Case For Online Article Marketing‚¬ in the past and I will do it again, because I do agree with Ted on this point. He is correct, it does make sense for targeted traffic. When people ask me questions like;

Does Online Article Marketing work?

Is it worth writing hundreds of articles in order to attract targeted traffic to your online business?

Should you spend the time to write articles and put them online at an online article directory web site?

If you put a byline underneath the article will customers click on it that are interested in what you sell and come to your web site?

Will these customers once they come to your web site by your products or services?

Does online article marketing really work?

Well, I feel I am qualified now to present the case for Online Article Marketing and recommend why you should participate in online article marketing if you have a web site which sells your products or services. Even if you are not selling anything I still recommend online article marketing to drive traffic to your nonprofit cause, political web site or to help present your case for a change for humanity, society or government.

Over the a 20 month period I had written and put online over 10,000 articles and it became rather apparent early on before I even had one thousand articles online that the traffic increases to my web site was moving my hit counter very strongly. Additionally, the average stay from an Internet user went up by a factor of four pages on average. This is no doubt because people had read my articles and then clicked on my byline and come to my web site.

The people coming to the web site were much better targeted traffic and much more interested in the topics than the regular Internet surfer that came directly from the Internet search engines. In fact at one point, I had to take the byline off of all my articles because I had too much Web traffic and could not handle all the people on my Internet Forum, which is what I linked my articles to.

I would say that having too much traffic is complete proof that online article marketing works. Having too much traffic or too many sales on a web site for someone that is selling something online is a most excellent problem to have. I hope you will consider my opinion, experience and observations in online article marketing and I hope it helps you achieve your goals as well.

What Online Internet Website Marketing Strategies, do I recommend? Well, Online Internet Marketing can be many different things to many people; some folks judge their efforts by the traffic that comes into their web site, but in actuality web traffic or hits does not equal sales. If your goal on your web site is to sell things then simply having lots of traffic may not result in lots of sales. What you need if you want sales on a web site is Targeted Traffic and people who are looking for something specific and ready to buy it. Of course if you have targeted traffic often you can use informational selling to help educate the consumer or customer until they are willing to buy.

It also makes sense to allow customers to compare and shop as if they were in a regular store. If they can also shop your competitors and multiple different brands of the same product on your web site then you may find that such targeted traffic will be more inclined to actually purchase something. Some web sites are not trying to sell anything at all and perhaps they are a nonprofit web site looking for support, volunteers or donations.

Then there are political web sites, which have the goals of earning your vote, turning you into a word-of-mouth promoter or volunteer and sometimes to raise money for the political campaign. Often government web sites use Online Internet Website Marketing in order to educate citizens and therefore reduce costs of direct mail, Government printing costs, employees to answer the phone or physical locations for people to go to. Each type of Online Internet Web Site Marketing is uniquely, but the best and easiest way to increase traffic in my opinion is thru online article marketing and that can be done by writing articles and posting them on the top online article submission sites like; EzineArticles.com

Comment provided December 2, 2006 at 8:13 PM

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22

THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED.

Comment provided December 3, 2006 at 8:42 AM

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